[00:00:06] Speaker A: Well, today we're going to sit down and we're going to talk with Mary Brown at Apaye, who is going to help us from veterinary.com and explain to us the ins and outs, starting at that high level and then dialing down to an appeal process for veterans benefits. This is something that trips a lot of us up in a parent project, especially if you didn't serve. It's something you don't want to mess up. It's complicated. It's the government. So it's not going to be easy. But luckily, we got an expert hanging on the line to talk with us today. So let's get on to the studio. Mary Brown, thanks so much for joining us.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Hi. Happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Will you bless us today with a challenging topic by jumping right through it. You, of course, are an attorney at law, so you love tackling challenges. And you're going to go head first. We're expecting that out of you.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Maybe before we start jumping into that beast of veterans benefits and kind of how we come about in it and the behaviors that we see about it, could you start with, talk to us a little bit about you personally? What's your perspective to understand the process of the VA, of military service and parent projects in general?
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So how I know the military is because I am a veteran.
It was a former life ago, it feels like now, but I served as a Navy veteran or Navy service member on helicopters that don't work. They don't do them anymore. And so I've gone through the military process. I've signed that line, and I've, you know, know what it's like to be in the military.
I have been doing veterans benefits law now for six years.
I started off doing appellate work at the Court of Appeals for Veterans claims, which is reviewing what the last level of appeal in the agency is, is the board decision to say these are errors. And then I've sort of worked my way backwards from there. I went from the court and now I'm doing, doing agency level work for veterans and their families pursuing benefits. I had a couple years where I focused on military sexual traumas. That's a little bit of a specialty of mine, for lack of a better word. And so I've been, at this point, I probably have represented thousands of veterans and their families in working through this big process of getting compensation benefits, but also making sure that they understand the healthcare benefits and some of the benefits that they're spouses have if a veteran passes, as well as some healthcare opportunities and education benefits that these, you know, the veterans are entitled to for their service.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: That is brilliant. That is brilliant. When with the veterans that you've worked from off the past, have you run into situations where families were playing a role in that veterans, you know, process or their path of trying to get it? And what did that. What does that look like? How does that manifest and look like from your guys role?
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So a lot of times when we're having a family member involved there, sometimes it's a child, like an adult child, trying to help their older parents get involved. I had a case where the daughter was helping their dad to try to figure out benefits. We started off with actually doing non service connected pension, which is a benefit for those who have served honorably, and they get that if they have income limits and they have served during a wartime. So you have to be non peacetime period, which unfortunately is more of our military history than not.
So most people do qualify, though there are some exceptions. And so I was actually helping his daughter navigate with him the forms, how to get him into a home that would accept those benefits, understanding what the application process looked like, there was actually somebody who they were talking to that was going to charge them to fill out the form, and they said, no, no, no, you don't have to, you know, you don't have to pay to fill this out. And we were representing them on other service connected conditions as well. But in the meantime, this was a benefit that he could get fairly quickly while we're in the process of doing the bigger compensation.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: So with that, too, I think that's a really clear thing to state. I mean, you guys were supporting him in another case, but the fact that he didn't have to pay somebody to fill this out wasn't just because he was already seeing you there. It's because there are services that there are advocates. Right. That do this.
The government set up a system like this, right?
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Yes. So there are attorneys that are involved, and historically, we're only really allowed to be involved during an appeals process. And then our payments come from not the veteran. We don't get paid by our clients directly. And then. But there are agencies that are veteran services offices. There are ones that are national. Some of you might know.
Department of American Veterans.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Yeah, dav. And. Yeah, right.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: There it is. And then there's American Legion. So those are. What are national VSO. So they have offices from one side of the country to the other, veterans of foreign wars. You'll see those posts a lot. Some of them are international, because even if you're a veteran that doesn't live in the United States, you are still entitled to your care. So there are options for international as well.
Are also vsos that work within regional offices for the VA. So there is the medical center where there are sometimes vsos there, and then there's the benefits offices where there are sometimes vsos that work inside of there. So and then there are county vsos. A lot of states and counties put together people who have gone through the accreditation process with the VA. So they know the process, they know the forms, they know how to help you get started, and they are free. You do not have to pay anybody to help you do this.
And that's a big thing because there are entities out there that are charging our veterans to provide a service that they don't have to pay for.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Right.
So that's a great explanation. And then recapping against it. Those are veteran service organizations, vsos, many of them, like the VFW, the American Legion. I use disabled american veterans, is who has supported me since I got out and continued times when we have to deal with stuff.
You talked about attorneys then coming on also as a layer, but generally the attorney is not to come on until there might be an appeals process. Did I catch that correct? Okay. Which is, honestly, I got to tell you, I've been doing this for a long time, and I didn't even know that there was a group of attorneys that worked as that VSO, because sometimes that's going to be a heck of a lot more. That's going to work a lot better for you than relying on Dav or that other VSO group whose real end of expertise is that front end of getting you in line and getting that first packet through. You're not great at the exception management process of it. And that's been a frustration. I know personally, that's been a frustration to get through, as much as I love the organizations. Right.
That's wonderful to know. And those attorneys are certified or they're accepted in some way from the veterans Administration. Is that who accredits?
[00:07:58] Speaker B: Yes. So there's actually an accreditation process that attorneys and vsos go through. As attorneys, we have a little bit more of a. Well, we have a higher ethical standard just because of what our bars require as being attorneys. And so we have to provide verification, good standing as being attorneys. You can be licensed anywhere and participate in the veteran system because it's federal. So. But we have to verify that we are still good standing with our local bars. We have to do cles. Actually, everybody that's accredited actually has to do continuing legal education and training in the veterans law area. That is true for attorneys like myself and others that I work with in my firm as well, as we say, lay VSo. So non attorney vsos, they also have an accreditation process and continuing education process. So there are, and we're all, you can find us all through the office of General counsel, which is OGC's VA accreditation search. So you can just google it or bing it if you're a Microsoft person or safari. I guess I'm trying to be all inclusive.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: We will actually, we will throw a QR code to that right here when we go on. So you'll be able to see that QR code? Yep.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: So you can go there and find anybody that's accredited. If they're an attorney, it'll tell you when you pull them up. And if they're a VSO, it'll tell you that as well. But that's really important. That that is who's helping you, because like I said, they are accredited. So they are bound by the same standards of duty and professionalism and knowledge that the VA requires of their own employees as well as privacy. So if you have access to their. Their electronic site called vbms. Don't ask me to say what the acronyms are because I can't remember.
But that's the electronic document now. That's what the file is. It used to be paper and, you know, could go from office to office, but now it's all in an electronic system and we have to be vetted. We got background check. We have to get a government id specific to allow us to access that system. So there's a lot of insurances that the person you're working with, if they're accredited, like I said, whether it's an attorney or a non attorney VSO, that they have passed the VA standard to make sure that we're giving you the best service possible through that accreditation process. So it's really important that you use someone who's accredited.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: That's awesome. And we've had previously on the show the national commanders of the disabled american veterans and other things like that for the lay vsos. This is great as we start getting into the appeals process. So maybe one other pretext, thing of information to kind of help Ori know it helped understand this, and maybe you can, since you train even attorneys like this would be great. Okay. So the veterans process has, there's a medical side and there's a benefit side and they work side by side, but they don't always talk to each other, and their systems don't always talk to each other. But when you start getting the ability to come into the. And once people figure out, oh, they're separate. Got it. They're separate. But when you start the benefits side, oftentimes you have to go through the medical processing in some way, shape, or form to establish where you are. And people get really confused. How do you talk to people about that?
How do you help people and veterans understand what's about to happen and not go totally sideways?
[00:11:27] Speaker B: Yes. So there is two parts to the VA, as you said. There is the healthcare side. And so that's where veterans who have honorable service can go and get their healthcare. And then there is the benefits side. There is a requirement by the healthcare side to give your records to the VA side when you're filing a claim for benefits.
What is happening, and something that I explain to my clients and also to other people that I train is there is a growing part of the healthcare side that's called community care. There was a huge legislation that allowed access. Yep. It is a great benefit. One of the things that happens, though, is that your community care provider. Right, who's got authorization from the VA to provide you services. Well, the way they get paid is they send records to the healthcare side. Those records get scanned into your file, but it's like a link to those records. When the benefits. When the healthcare side is sending your records to the benefits side, all those community care records that have been scanned into your file that your VA provider can see, they don't go.
So one of the things that we always clarify when we're arguing with the vet, not arguing, but when we're appealing to the VA to say, hey, these records are missing, you're supposed to get them.
We try to get the VA to do their job, which is they have to go get them. But then I also explain to my clients and to other attorneys, and we also have not attorney case managers that work on our firm as well. Hey, let's make sure that they know that those treatment records need to get obtained one way or the other. So if you can get them, great, let's try to do that. So what we explain is that the healthcare workers, and especially if it's a VA provider, they are prohibited from providing opinions about how their condition is related to service.
It's been a VA policy for a very long time to limit any conflicts of interest or.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: An inference by somebody under contract that they. Because that is an assessment that's a highly structured assessment that's done right.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: And it also could be an interference between the client and their provider if their provider doesn't give the right, doesn't give a nexus opinion that's favorable to them. So what the.
So for your providers, that's one thing. There are examination, and most of them are going through private vendors. Now for the exams that support, they will still go to the VA. But especially with COVID it became more convenient and honestly pragmatic and required to do outside vendors to still do VA exams that support the claims. So those individuals are not your provider. It's very clear when you go there. And so when people are sending their family members or they themselves are going or they are talking to their family members about this exam, that person is there to just do an analysis of the file, of the condition and give an opinion. And one thing that we see often is that our clients are coming back or our clients are, you know, we're working with a family member. They're talking about how their veteran dad or mom came back. They can be unsettled because it doesn't feel helpful, it doesn't feel friendly, it doesn't feel therapeutic, because it's not.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: It's transactional.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: It is very transactional.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: But that said, too, even, you know, as somebody, you know, my period of services in the nineties through 22,007 or so, right. And in going through this, then it, you know, in 2000, 920, ten kind of time, even in the VA hospital, it still was a pretty sterile process. Like you went to a specific wing at the VA hospital and it was like, they're not going to tell you relation. Yeah, I was like this. Just the facts, ma'am. Right. Like they run you through, but yeah, yeah. And if you think about especially that, that's the introduction of the VA system and who, if you're going to go get healthcare, you might think that that's kind of. Wow, man, I could see that really being a bear. I'd never thought about that before. Yeah.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. I mean, that's definitely something, especially for somebody who's doing for mental health condition. And of course, as I had mentioned, being a military sexual trauma person for a while, it was like, have your support systems understand that they are not there to help you in a therapeutic sense. They could give you a favorable opinion in that case that is going to help in your claim, help with access to care, help with access to compensation.
But yeah, it is a point to keep in mind when you're starting to do this process is that there are going to be opportunities to be examined, and they're not necessarily going to be a great healthcare experience, but it's necessary, actually, it's required to get your benefits granted, is you have to go through those processes.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: No, no. You're the one I want to hear from, so.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Oh, I was going to say, so one of the things that we do in our firm, and a lot of attorneys do as well, and we do that. I say the law firms, because we have the funds to help our clients get access to this, is private opinions.
If clients are going through the VA process and getting negative exams, we try to help offset that to the best we can by getting our own opinions and getting our own assessments.
That is less clinical sometimes. A lot of it's now virtual, but it's less clinical. And so there is always an option to submit private medical opinions.
That may still require you to do VA exams, but at least you have that favorable evidence in there, and that can help in the long run as well, to make the process less arduous if you have the ability to get a medical opinion yourself.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Now with. With the community care, with that initiative coming through and seeing an outsourcing of that initial. Those initial.
Not visits.
Examinations. There we go. Yeah. Thanks. Wow. Of exams there, let's say that you're sent someplace or you're working through some. Maybe that's a type, like a sexual trauma or something that's worked in a. From that avenue, because it's a group that I'm going to imagine where they send you would be somebody who's got a specialty in that in some way, shape or form, or is it going to be. Is it not? I mean, is one thing that thinks in my sticks in my head is maybe I'm going to go someplace where, while they just can't assign where it's coming from and whether it was service related disability, maybe they have access to some of the additional coping tools or support groups or other things like that because they see this often enough. Or is it assigned as a point of clarity, is it just assigned to an MD? And generally, they try to keep that as sterile as possible.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: So, for most sexual trauma claims they are pursuing, if there's a psychiatric condition associated with it. So for purposes of the exam, the person can ask for a gender specific examiner, but that does not mean that the examiner you're going to, they're going to be a psychiatrist or psychologist, because the VA requires that if they're engaging with a trauma related diagnosis, but they're not necessarily going to be trained specifically with regards to trauma or military sexual trauma. That being said. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: No, I was just gonna say, like, that's.
[00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: While it might work out, I think you do great justice just to set the tone of what could happen. Like what?
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Right. And, of course, you're an attorney, so that's what you guys do.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: This is. This is. This is the function. It is set up to work this way because it's an. It's an administrative process. Yeah.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: That being said, though, for. Specifically for combat and military sexual trauma survivors, there are special treatment centers called vet centers that are outside of the VA system because sometimes that can be very triggering to go to a VA medical center for those individuals. And so there are vet centers that are outside the traditional VA system that are accessible to individuals who need that care. And you do not have to be service connected. You don't even have to be trying to get service connection, and they will provide service services to you in support of that experience.
The other thing as well is that some people, some of our veterans who have gone through either personal trauma, combat, they don't always have a honorable discharge. So.
And so they will not be allowed. They're supposed to be allowed care at the VA medical center, but a lot of times they will be turned away. But vet centers will provide psychiatric care. They don't do medical, general medical, but they will provide psychiatric care for anybody that comes in and says, I have personal trauma, I have combat trauma. They are specifically trained to help people and those with that specific type of trauma history. So something I always like to reassure and remind everybody is that if you do have somebody that has a trauma, even if they have an other than honorable discharge and you're trying to work on that, they can still get access to care through the vet centers.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: That's fantastic. In fact, I see us highlighting that, in short, just to make sure people understand that. Yeah, that's a wonderful thing to know across the board because it's. Okay. So this. You're given a great segue into pushback. Right. Pushback of why people don't. I mean, this is.
I have a hard time when I go to community care gets a little easier for me. But, you know, I came home. I was blessed to come home from. From combat, from. From Iraq, and. And I was blessed to come home with all my fingers in my toes and generally some, you know, injuries that had to be dealt with in surgery a little later. But I'm there and when I, when I spend time in a hospital, in a VA hospital and I'm in front of somebody who's missing half of their brain or something, it's really impactful on me, and it, and it's something to come through.
There was a lot of people who coached me, including some of those people who coached me of the importance of us being together and being there and going through that experience there. But, man, there's a lot of, there's a lot of reasons why people aren't comfortable with this. What are the most common ones that you see? And how do you talk to families about that?
[00:22:30] Speaker B: So some of the most common ones that we deal with or we hear because, again, we're getting appeals. So this is mostly people that have finally jumped in and done it. Right. But a very common, commonly, the things that we see in their record when they're finally filing or talking to us and trying to explain why they hadn't gotten care or they had not submitted a claim, is really, that is the idea that trying to engage in this after getting out of a service that maybe wasn't that smooth, maybe wasn't the best experience in their life. Right. They just didn't want to be around it. They could not be around it.
You know, the idea of having to go to a medical center, a va medical center that maybe requires them. So my experience a lot with resistance was trauma survivors, sexual assault, trauma survivors were like, I'm so if it's a female, I'm mostly with males. That's who I have to sit next to. And they remind me of, you know, the experience I went through.
I know when I went to one of them for, you know, reasons, I don't go to va medical centers for care just because I have insurance. And so I'm really happy that I have that.
But it was like, it just reminded me of boot camp. So I think one of the things that a lot of people experience is that it is old structure, old infrastructures, old mentalities. Like, there's a lot of times where there's mostly focusing on male veterans because for a long time, that was the majority of the patients. And so, you know, we don't try to coach people into, like, you should go to the VA. We really don't, because it's like, it's not really our place. But we do emphasize to them the reason why it's important to keep pushing through for their benefits, even though they do have to keep going to the VA exam sometimes. And even though they do have to, you know, revisit telling their story over and over again and facing that denial on the next one is.
And the scrutiny I have.
Yeah, they're like, they're telling me I'm lying because they're denying me, and I'm like, that's not. But you can see where they get that from because of the verbiage of the decision. So for us, at the end of the day, you know, especially for those who are like, I just didn't think I needed these benefits. I didn't want these benefits. I didn't deserve these benefits. You know, is a lot of us that work in my firm are veterans. So we can just say, look, we all sign that line and this is the promise, and you're not okay, and you're, you deserve this. This isn't a handout, right? Like, you literally signed that line to, to put your life on the line if necessary, and, um, you wouldn't be in this position otherwise. So we really kind of help people understand that it's a benefit they've earned and that was promised to them and that it's not, um, you know, it's not a less thing for them to go through this process. The other thing I always emphasize to people, too, is I'm like, look, you can provide for your family. You know, if we have somebody that's really disabled and they can't work and they have kids, it's like, look, if you get, we go through this process and keep fighting to get total disability for you, you know, you're going to have healthcare. You can get spousal support. If you're, if your spouse needs care, you can get education benefits for your child. So. And that's also true if you're the child or if you're the spouse, you know, and you're trying to help your, your family member to go through this. Yeah.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Right. The, so, okay, so since our audience is those caretakers, those family caretakers, and some of us are at the beginning of that caretaking journey, it's just, yeah, we're just starting to realize, oh, this is going to be a thing and it's going to set in. And so you're trying to collect as many resources as possible. Maybe you and I could talk really quickly about those key guarded documents and what the heck? I'm looking forward to get started off of this so that I know if I could ask you to go up maybe to the lay VSO or to the VSO level up there, right. When somebody decides, okay, I need to get on board with some of this.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: What are we looking for, really? The only document you need is your DD 214 to show that you have service.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: That is the 14.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: That is the document that will get you for vsos to get benefits started, but also to take it to the medical center to start getting access to services. So whether you stay at the VA Medical center for Services or you want to get cleared or authorized for community care, the DD 214 is the thing that will do it. Now, if you are a reservist and you have qualifying period of service, that the document you're going to be looking for is called an NG B 22. Both of those things are the things that document that you have service that is determined to be honorable or qualifying. Let me just rephrase that. Qualifying because technically dishonorable isn't the bottom line.
Go ahead.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: I'm sorry on that. Because you did reference NGB 22 for National Guard Bureau 22. Right.
[00:27:44] Speaker B: Or any reservist. Yeah.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: So the Federal reserve, though, and the army reserve, would they use a DD 214 or would they use it? They wouldn't use an NGB 22. Right. They'll use a DD 214 for the Federal US Army Reserve.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: Yes. So there is. So thank you. So the reservists all have NGB 22 for their period of inactive service. But if you are a reservist and you are activated to active duty under title ten and your DDT, you will get a DD 214. So for every time that you're activated under title ten, you will get a DD 214 for that period of time. But then your overall period of service, you will also get that separate document. I know National Guard, but from what I've seen, every reservist, regardless of branch, although a lot of them have been army, our national guard, get also that NGB 22. So that tracks your entire period of contract service under your orders and affiliation with your reserve unit. The DD 214 is the document for any active duty. So that federal active reserve is that federal.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: And I do. And I do. And you'll be the turn off that. But I do believe the. So the army has the army reserve, which is a federal component but not falls under NGB.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Unlike the air Force, National Guard, Army National Guard, all those. They all fall off. I guess that's the other side, I'm thinking. So if mom or dad served in the 104th training division out of, you know, Eugene, Oregon, which is a reserve unit, it's a, that's a federal side of the house, and they're just going to see that as opposed to a national guard which at a high level means they work for a state militia under a state tag, all organized through NGB back in DC. Okay. So as you walk through their story and you're looking for those things, if you hear mom and dad were related to a national guard, then you're going to see an NGB 22 for the time that they were just drilling and going one week in a month or on the IRR, the ready reserved portion for every time they got activated and deployed or did a string of even two weeks at a time on long sides. Those will all get registered on a DD 214 document, and then all active duty service and federal is going to be there. Okay.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: That's where you start.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: That's where you start those.
[00:30:04] Speaker B: If you're looking for benefits in particular, if you have documents of diagnosis, that's also really helpful. If you have any medical records that help start the process of showing the VA, because they have three parts. To get service connection, you have to have a current condition, you have to have something in service that happened, and then you have to have a way to connect those things together. So. But the VA will not start their own process in helping get other medical records or getting that opinion if there's not at least some way to show I have a disability. So if you have records that show a disability current and over the course of time, that's really, really helpful.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: That is hard. So in a disability for the sake of when we're applying for this is what, a changing condition from when you went into the military to the time you came out of the military, a degradation of your ability to work and do and ultimately something like that. Or is it my legs don't work, or I'm seeing something.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Really, the simplest way to say is it's something that's a chronic condition that's impairing your ability to work.
Everything about the compensation structure is trying to sort of offset the impairment in work capacity that your service has caused. So if. But if you have something that was documented in service and you can show that it's still a problem, then that's it. Degradation. In my mind, what I'm thinking about is it might have been something that existed prior to service and then got worse from service and is still worse.
But, yeah, so it's sort of this idea of a chronic condition. It's not. In other words, it's not acute. Right? You're like, I got measles in service. I don't have measles now. That's not going to do it. Right. Or I twisted my ankle in service and now my ankle is fine. That's not going to work. But if you twisted your ankle in service and now you have arthritis in that same ankle, that's a disability.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Right? Right. Okay, great.
So let's talk through, once that process has started, as you said, you're gonna go see generally allay VSo to get you started there and work your way through that. And we'll have links to several options of something that, that looks like. Where are other you talked about? If they were to walk into a va medical hospital, they're likely to run into somebody. What are other places where that family member might turn to first to find that lay vso?
[00:32:40] Speaker B: So, again, if we're talking about at the medical center, they can also talk to patient advocates who can connect them with the vsos. They can also connect them with case managers. So especially if your family member has multiple conditions or they're in multiple departments, so they have heart disease and they have lumbar issues, and so they have different things going on. Sometimes you can need a case manager to help manage all the appointments.
Again, the patient advocate is a great resource for those who are wanting to start from the point of the medical system for benefits, as well as making sure that all of the care that your family member is entitled to through the VA system is being done. They can put you in contact with the caregivers program. They can put you in contact with pension, they can put you in contact with home care, so they can sort of point you in the right direction to maximizing the healthcare benefits. And then they also have connection for vsos and other compensation benefits, which is the other side of the house for the VA. Great.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Great. So you've mentioned a couple of times the importance or not everybody starts as early as possible or gets started earlier, getting that door open. Can you set a tone about how long, in general, would somebody expect from the time that they decide to start today would be that, that kind of end state, knowing that nobody's holding you to that and the government, sure as heck is it going to tell you exactly how long.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: I appreciate that.
Yeah.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: But in general, just when people were trying to prepare themselves for, you know, how much time or life they may have with a loved one, and they're looking for that help and trying to make these things match up, sometimes that's an important component.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Absolutely. And the timeframes have gotten shorter.
In February 2019, the VA revamped their entire process. It was, you know, initially, this, this idea of appeals management so just the appellate stuff, but even the initial decisions, for the most part, they used to always be like two years. You file it and wait two years, but now we're looking more at like a six to twelve month period for that initial timeframe. And depending on the condition, it can be much shorter than that. But I think six to twelve months is a reasonable expectation for an initial claim to just get started and get that first decision.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: Great. And a lot of that has to help. The community Care initiative has to help a lot of that out. Right. It gives you many more options to meet with people as you're going through those assessment processes and getting all of that information in. Or is that after the first six to twelve months?
[00:35:20] Speaker B: So the community care program is actually just providing healthcare to veterans? Veterans.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I thought it was being used like surge capacity for assessment. It's not.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Oh, no. So that's contract providers. So contract examiners are the ones that are kind of providing that surge. The VA has been using them for at least the last ten years, but then they've really shift most of the burden to them. And, yeah, I would agree that having, there's like four of them now and then the VA themselves are starting to do some of the exams as well. So now there's five different entities that are authorized to do the examinations required for claims that I would agree do help expedite this process.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: That's great. And would we expect, should a family expect that there would be one? Or if they had multiple conditions, multiple visits in order to go through those exam processes.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: So depending on the exams, the VA actually tries to put them all together. So it can make it a very arduous day of exams, but then it's just one day.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Okay, so multiple exams.
Yeah, got maybe multiple exams, but. But they'll try to get them in one time. Yeah, that's great.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Pretty much as long as it's not hearing or psych. So as long as it's not a hearing or mental health, you will pretty much do everything else in one day.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: Okay, wonderful. Six to twelve months. That works from that. Okay, what do people. So now you get, you get a blue piece of paper in the mail that's got a bunch of information on it and it's talk to us about what that looks like, if you would, please. And it says something that we don't like. What do we do?
[00:37:03] Speaker B: Okay, so what you're going to get in the mail is a letter.
It's going to be a cover letter. The really important parts, excuse me, are in that very first top part, it says, we made a decision, and then it lists each of the claimed conditions and say that we've granted or denied or granted or denied, granted or denied. And then there's usually a section underneath it. If they've granted you benefits now, they're going to tell you how much money they're paying you.
And then after that cover letter, which is about five pages long, there's the actual thing called a rating decision. And it sort of just repeats what the COVID letter says, except it uses a bunch of legal jargon, copy paste from the regulations that say, this is why we didn't grant you, or this is why we granted you, and this is why we rated you.
You will also get something that's called notification of appeal rights, and that tells you the options that you have if you are dissatisfied with the decision, what you can do. And so there's three different options now. There used to only be one option, and it also directs you to, I believe the VA also gives you referrals to places that could represent you as well. So if you don't like what happens, you have a year from the date of that letter, and the date of the letter will more often than not be a few days later than the date of the rating decision itself. But you have a year from the date of that decision letter date to take your next step. So I don't recommend that, and we always don't. You know, when we get cases, we just keep rolling until we get our clients maxed out. But you do have a year to kind of figure out what you want to do.
And at that point, you can contact attorneys. We'll help you that are accredited. You can also go to a VSO. National vsos will do appeals, not others, as I've found out from my colleagues who distinguish, who told me the distinction, the national VSO people are actually trained into being able to do appeals.
And so you would want to do a national VSO or an attorney that can take the next step, because if you don't actually appeal and now it requires a specific correct form, then you lose whatever effective dates. So that is whatever money you would have been entitled to from the first time you claimed it. If you don't actually appeal it, you lose that period of time that you might have been entitled to money that you didn't and care, depending on the rating. So it's really important to try to appeal and appeal and send in the right form to be in an actual appeal to keep the thing alive and keep that effective date, because that's where a lot of our clients literally have life changing money provided to them and their family.
[00:39:51] Speaker A: You know, in one of our other guests that was a national DSO, one of the contexts that I thought was helped, that conversation when we talked. So I'll reapply it back here, if I could, real quick, was talking about what's being done with that documentation and that we want our government, we want our people that administer money out of the government's purse to be really good at saying no and so, and trying not to protect that money. So if we kind of come at it, if we can come and accept those letters, understanding that's what they're trying to do, they're trying to state no from that until they can come to an agreement where they don't have a technical, what's called purpose violation, as we've learned, of spending government money out of a purse for something that they didn't show exactly met the letter of law that they could spend that money against. And then that's the process. And so, you know, you can't take that too personal. They're not telling you you're a liar when it comes off. They're just, they haven't hit the burden needed in order to get over a purpose violation for how that pot of money is and what you're asking to be spent on. Does that. Did I get that? Did I still encapsulate that? Right?
[00:40:57] Speaker B: And I think you're completely right. Yeah, I think you're completely right. And the other thing, too, is that, and maybe this is something that I helped me, it's helped my clients. The people that are issuing those decisions there at that low level are not attorneys.
They are just lay employees of the VA who have an adjudication manual that literally walks them through the decision process. And so just like you mentioned, they have to get to yes through that decision process or they can't say yes.
And so that's part of where I think it's helped people understand. It's like, these aren't lawyers. This is, you know, I can tell you all day long that this is going to get granted, but that's because I can apply the facts to the law and interpret it through that. And the people that are issuing these decisions at the regional office level and anything before the board, they don't have that ability. They don't have that authorization to do that.
I talk to a lot of adjudicators at the intermediate level through informal conferences. They are really trying to do the best that they can.
I will say they are very compassionate people who we often have conversations about their hands being tied because they do have exactly that. They're like, I have to be able to point through this rubric that gets me to.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: Yes, many of them are bad, in fact. Right?
[00:42:20] Speaker B: They are, yeah.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a priority for hiring them into that position. So they do want to get to that. They genuinely do. So when you get involved or when you've got an appeal process going involved, what's the timeframe? Again, not holding against that, but if we have those generalizations, are we talking, is that like a couple of year kind of process, or is it much more succinct since the first stuff's done? Is it really a mash?
[00:42:47] Speaker B: Yeah. So actually, with the Appeals Management act of 2019, from February 2019, there is two levels of appeal that are at the regional office level, and they're actually supposed to be done within four months. I think the actual window is four to six months. So there's actually been some process in speed. If you're going to the board, you're still going to be waiting a couple of years, unfortunately. But the way you work around that, because now we can sort of make choices about how to fix or add evidence at a faster level. At the regional office levels, you know, you can get the same outcomes in a year or two total.
Previously we're waiting for in five and six years. So the next appeal step, if you're not going straight to the board, which I haven't had a good reason, but people do, but if you're not going straight to the board, you're usually looking at a four to six period on the next. On the next level.
[00:43:45] Speaker A: That seems worth it to go into the direction, that way of looking at those options. That's.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we think, anyway.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: So in general, the high level, what, what does that lift look like? What's going to be requested of the family and what should they be putting together to really support off that side? What will they be asked of?
[00:44:04] Speaker B: Good question. So for the higher level review, there's no new evidence to add.
That was one of the ways they changed it. If you want to, or you feel like you need to add new evidence from the last decision, you can use a supplemental claim. But the higher level review is a process by which you can ask for an informal conference call. So a call from that adjudicator, and then you can talk about what you think the error was in the last decision. So you can say, we submitted a statement that explained how my, I'm trying to put it in the frame of the family doing it, but you probably should have help doing it. So your representative can say, hey, we put in this evidence or this statement of describing this in service incident that caused this ankle twist. By the way, there are no service treatment records. And so, really, the point of the higher level review is you are very much highlighting areas.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: Connecting the dots, too.
[00:45:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you can connect the dots. And because they are sometimes going very quickly, I've had cases where they just missed a favorable opinion. Like, maybe they got a couple of different kinds of opinions, and one was not favorable, but then one was favorable. And so you can take the opportunity at the higher level review and say, hey, they missed this favorable opinion. So you can connect the dots. You can also highlight that they missed doing some steps that could actually result in a grant. So there's not really anything for the family to do at that point because they've already done their heavy lifting and starting the claim at the first decision. The high level review is just to point out this should have been a grant because of XYZ, or, hey, the things that we did before should have resulted in the VA doing XYZ instead of just denying it. So when.
[00:45:54] Speaker A: When you're looking. When the advocate's looking at that, are they looking to get a yes no covered, or are they also appealing and looking at, like, percentage awards and degrees of disability?
[00:46:06] Speaker B: That's a great question. Yes. So there is the service connection, and there also is the rating, so you can appeal a rating. So we do a lot with ratings for psychiatric conditions where there's a couple different places on the exam for the evaluator to indicate impairment level. And there's oftentimes where that one indication is too low and the adjudicator miss the higher level symptoms.
So we can appeal that and then also for unemployability, which is 100% rating, even if your disability ratings don't add up to 100%.
And that's a very fact specific argument. And we can say, hey, the evidence supports a finding that they are not able to work because of their service connected conditions. And so that is true. We can argue that ratings were not appropriately assigned.
[00:47:02] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. And then you know what? And I know, I know we're getting long a time and kind of coming towards the end of this, where we're going to land this plane. One of the other common ones are changes in conditions. So, you know, I have an. I have an uncle who's one that got me to even commission in the first place and go to an academy is he's a military officer. Agent Orange was a real problem for him as a lieutenant and then through his life, you know, of service. Now, originally it wasn't recognized as something. He's now. His unit's really struggling with health problems from a lot of that. I being a chemical officer and dealing with burn pits and stuff like that, like those are things we just didn't think about. And it wasn't a part of that. But there have been changes there. What should we be thinking about? Or just how does that relate to this process? If maybe we threw something in before and nobody connected those dots, but now all of a sudden, there's been some change, should we do something? What should happen?
[00:47:58] Speaker B: Yes, great question. So that's really appropriate. And, you know, in August of 2022, the legisl Congress passed legislation that touched on both people who were in Gulf war, but also for Agent Orange exposure. So it expanded the areas that they would concede Agent Orange exposure. It expanded the conditions for both burn pit exposures, ant agent orange exposures, that now that they've got enough evidence, they'll concede it that it causes that. So whenever, specifically for Vietnam related veterans, the VA supposed. Well, it's true for all of them. The VA is supposed to send out notification to say, hey, we've changed the law. You might now be eligible. So if you get that letter, you should act on it. If you act on it, you not only can get these benefits granted that were denied before, the effective dates can be very favorable. And when you think effective date, think back. Awards money in your pocket to pay for car payments, house repairs, medical care, but also access, a longer period of access to medical care as well. So, yeah, if there is a notification or if you see online or an advertising on tv or over the radio that there was a change in the law, then reach out to your vso or just file something. You don't actually need a, you don't need a vso to start the process, but having that person as a point of contact from the beginning is really helpful because the VA sends out notification letters. They send it to you as the veteran or the claimant, but they also send it to your representative. So you don't even have to necessarily follow up with them and say, hey, I got this letter. Did you get it? They should be getting it, too.
And so, yeah, definitely when there's a change in law or even if you do your own research and because there's research coming out all the time, especially for Agent Orange, about how it might be linked.
Add in that evidence, add in that claim, and keep fighting because eventually everything's going to be related to Agent Orange. I feel like for all of our veterans during that period of time and then the burn pit and stuff is going to be the same way. So anytime you see or learn of a new connection that maybe wasn't thought of before, you can send it in.
[00:50:20] Speaker A: And those are supplement, those are going to be supplemental claims off of new claims. Okay, great.
[00:50:26] Speaker B: No, they'll be supplemental. Yep.
[00:50:28] Speaker A: Here we go. Boy, Mary Brown, you rocked that. That was awesome. Talk to me. How do people get more information with you guys and your expertise?
[00:50:42] Speaker B: So for my business, my company, or just in general?
[00:50:45] Speaker A: Yep, yep.
[00:50:46] Speaker B: So I work for Cameron firm. Our, we are veteranapeal.com dot, I think. And you can really just go to that website, we have a chat that a chat button will pop up and you can kind of do that chat. It has our phone number. And the thing that we do is that if you call and ask and tell us your situation, if we cannot help you, we have a list of referrals for you. You know, we have other sister companies that we can refer you to, other law firms that maybe focus on different types of claims than we do.
Or if it's, you know, just a benefit that we don't work on or it's not a stage that we can work on, we will send, we refer you out and in some cases we can even do that initial claim for you.
Just our whole intake crew is wonderful. They're highly educated. They are desperate to help, even if we can't help you, we really try to make sure that we're connecting veterans or their family members to the services that they need, even if it's not from us.
[00:51:49] Speaker A: Well, obviously a wonderful pool of expertise to draw off of having you back there. I'd love to have you as a trainer for our organization. Extremely knowledgeable. You broke it down really, really well.
[00:52:00] Speaker B: Thank you. I appreciate it.
[00:52:02] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you for the time you took to break that down for everybody and share in your time, talents and treasures with us today.
[00:52:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. My pleasure. And thank you for your service and for providing this to all of your viewers. It's been a pleasure and I hope it helps.
[00:52:18] Speaker C: Cameron firm PC is a veteran owned law firm. There is no fee until you win. And our firm has won over $100 million in the last ten years. As a veteran, you deserve the best representation. Schedule a free consultation today. Call 808 617262.
At Cameron firm. We stand with veterans and their families across the country. We'll take a close look at every part of your case, handle all the paperwork accurately, and gather every piece of evidence we need to support your appeal.
After fighting the VA for five and a half years on my own, I was receiving denial after denial with Cameron law firm. I just received 80% disability.
I highly recommend Cameron law firm to any veteran who is struggling with VA disability claims.
We're thorough because we care about getting you every benefit you deserve. Have you been denied VA disability benefits? If your claim was denied, don't hesitate to reach out. Call us at 808 617262 or visit
[email protected] and fill in the contact form for a free consultation. Let's team up to secure the benefits you've earned.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: Well, that's it for the team this week, and thanks for joining us. If you've enjoyed the content, remember to subscribe and share this episode on the app that you're using right now. Your reviews and your comments, they really help us expand our reach as well as our perspectives. So if you have time, also drop us a note, let us know how we're doing. For tips and tools, clarify your parent project, simplify communication with your stakeholders, and verify the professionals that you choose. You can find us on YouTube, follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Thanks again for trusting us until our next episode. Behold and beheld.
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