Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:06 You're listening to parent projects.
Speaker 2 00:00:10 Hey guys, Tony, see with parent Projects. Today we are sitting down with Tracy Bakley and part of a family that's been down here in the valley, uh, since, uh, 1950, in the 1950s, at least, uh, since they really dug in and started helping the Phoenix Metro area, working with aging, aging in place, aging in senior living communities, aging in, um, every spectrum in between. And today, Tracy's gonna talk with us about, uh, boy respite care in home care, what that looks like when our family members want an age in place, how we can remove some of the decision making made in guilt and fear, and replace it with a little love and laughter. Stay tuned for Tracy Beakley.
Speaker 1 00:01:15 You're listening to Parent Projects, a family Media and technology Group Production. Now, here's your host, Siber.
Speaker 2 00:01:24 Hey, she's one of the most influential healthcare innovators to watch. She's, uh, Rotarian, she's a great friend, Tracy Bigley. We've got with Sunland Home Care and Medical today, uh, to break down, uh, the decision making when we're facing a little bit of, uh, in-home care needs, what it takes to, to take care of a loved one there and, uh, when we may need a little helping hand from a friend. Tracy, welcome.
Speaker 4 00:01:51 Thank you, Tony. Thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2 00:01:53 It's a blessing to have you out here. Thank you. And you are, uh, joining us from the Mesa market today. Is that right? Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 00:02:00 <affirmative>. We're in Mesa.
Speaker 2 00:02:01 Great. Out on the east end of the valley. So, uh, Tracy, I, I know in a, in a bit, one of the things we're gonna show is a good little background of, of you guys and your family and how you came here and where you came to be. So typically we might run down some of that, you know, all about you. You know, what I'm most curious about, um, is how I, I know you grow up, you see this, you see a lot going on. Uh, what is it that keeps you showing up in such a highly emotional thing every day? It's a difficult job. You got your own stuff to manage from that. What keeps you showing up and innovating inside healthcare, and particularly with home healthcare and medical?
Speaker 4 00:02:43 You know, I absolutely love, um, problem solving and seniors and aging in place is a huge problem in our, in our, uh, country right now and in our community. And, um, I find so much joy and satisfaction, giving people their right to self-determination, giving them choice over how they want to live and to age. And we are just a small piece in that puzzle of the choice that we give people, um, in, in a senior season of their life. And I just, I absolutely love it. I love giving people that options on how they want to spend, you know, their senior years.
Speaker 2 00:03:27 Yeah. Do you have, you have family that's all local and, and here and around you still today? I take it,
Speaker 4 00:03:33 I do <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:03:35 And, um, and, and when you, is this anything that you guys have had to go through at all? Maybe not you personally. You have aunts, uncles, and other, have you, you watched this really play out, or even within your own life of that moment where this might be more than I can do, I'm in over my head. Have you seen that? Is that part of play here?
Speaker 4 00:03:54 Uh, some, um, I've had a grand, um, a grandfather on one side that passed away here, and I watched that play out. And because I'm from a large family, my family was able to step in and he was able to pass away at home. And I know that that was a very, it's a unique situation. Not everybody can do that. Yeah. Um, a lot of the adult children do not live near their parents. And I, so I know that's a unique situation. Um, so if that is not something your family can do, there's a lot of other resources and, and ways. And so, like I said, I find a lot of joy in helping people make those decisions, um, because they've lived their lives, they've given back to the community, they've, um, and so it's a time in their lives where they need some assistance, and I can come in and, and assist them where they're at.
Speaker 2 00:04:48 Yeah. But it, and I've known you for some time, but it just, it just hit me in hearing you talk about what that example was for you as to why Sunland is the way that Sun Land's delivery really is. I mean, it's that, that feeling behind it, uh, is that, that family feeling. So it might not be your family, but it's like an extension of a family that can come around you to offer that kind of an experience. Yes. Uh, and I don't know that I ever put that together before and all these years, but that makes, that makes complete sense. Your, your people focus, how that goes, the group that's coming, like, yeah, I think that that's gonna really jive. Um, tell me, what is your favorite thing about working in this industry?
Speaker 4 00:05:30 Uh, twofold. Um, in, in the in-home care industry, um, on the employee side, there, a lot of times caregivers have not been treated well generally in this industry. Um, and so I love being able to come in and support our caregivers with training, with, um, extra, um, things that they haven't had the ability to do. Um, and so I love when our caregiver, I absolutely, it just makes my day when they say, you know what, Tracy, I work at Sunland and it's the best place I've ever worked. You guys have you guys treat me well? You, you don't expect me to do things that I'm not comfortable with. My safety's important. And so we've been voted, um, a great place to work four times, four years in a row by our, our team. And that's one of the things I'm most proud about.
Speaker 2 00:06:30 Uh, and that's a huge thing to be proud of, especially when you come into, uh, when you come into the senior industry and you see a lot of churn and you see a lot of movement across that industry, I think a stability of a company. Uh, in fact, every company in the country right now that's turning to business coaches are being coached and told, uh, you need to show your people that you value them and where they're coming, whether you're the Fortune 50 company or you're a new startup, that it's an important part of what you've gotta do. So, um, it's even more significant, I think, when you, you're talking about a company that delivers personal services. You deliver relationships in some way, shape or form. Yeah. Yeah. In, into, into the marketplace. I wanna take a second in and walkthrough and spend, um, you know, a couple minutes breakaway in seeing your story and how Sunland healthcare and home care and, uh, medical came to be, um, with you and your family. So let's take a break here and let's watch that. Okay.
Speaker 4 00:07:35 My name is Tracy Beagley. I'm the founder and c e o of Sunland Home Care and Medical. And today I wanted to tell you a little bit about, um, how Sunland came to be. So over 60 years ago, my family, uh, came to Arizona and started building 55 plus active adult communities. My great-grandfather, Joe Farnsworth and my grandfather, Ross Farnsworth, um, built the first community in Mesa in 1958. Since then, um, my dad started building 55 plus communities with my grandpa, and we have built four, um, in Mesa over the last, um, 60 plus years. While I was growing up, my dad was building several of these 55 plus communities. And so my earliest memories growing up were serving the seniors in these communities. We would go to events and serve hotdogs. We would put on a Christmas program every year where my family and all of our cousins would go sing to the seniors in the, in these communities.
Speaker 4 00:08:40 And, um, so growing up, we were always involved in many of the aspects of, um, the active adult communities that my, my dad was working and building homes in. After these four communities were built, uh, my dad and brother decided that they wanted to build a memory care community called the Summit at Sunland Springs. Shortly after that was opened, um, we realized that seniors want to stay home. They wanna age gracefully and with dignity in their own homes. And that's when Sunland Home Care Medical came to be. Uh, Sunland. Home Care Medical is really unique in that, uh, my philosophy is people first. And I really believe that when you put your staff first and put your team first, and when they're happy, and then when they feel appreciated, that your customers will, then Phil appreciated as well. And so, what we do at Sunland is we have a lot of things that we intentionally do to make our team feel like they're appreciated, to feel like they, we know who they are, we know their names, we know about them, and we want them to know that when they join our team, that they're part of our family.
Speaker 4 00:09:56 And even though that they work in different homes throughout the valley, that they have a home base, and that they have a group of people that are there to communicate with them and support them while they work here at Sunland,
Speaker 2 00:10:11 Oprah Winfrey of, of, uh, of, uh, fame, TV's, uh, personality. I said that when you know better, you can do better. Uh, and there is a lot to learn when we're looking at caring for a loved one, how to, um, determine what their needs are, how to determine, uh, how we can help them, how to determine who else can help them. Uh, it's a challenge. And if you've got the right partner that can help you, particularly inside the home or in that environment, we've just seen apparent projects. It's something that helps organizations thrive. We've got Tracy Beakley today with Sunland Home Care, home Care and Medical. And, uh, you know, whether you Sunland is somebody in your market or you're joining us from another market outside of Arizona, uh, what I really hope that our viewers will take away from that first segment of that is there's a, there's an ideology or a pedagogy that you, that's brought to home healthcare.
Speaker 2 00:11:10 Those, those companies that bring it through, extending a family, they're showing you how to, how to know better so you can do better. And, uh, and, you know, I'm looking forward now breaking down in this conversation. Let's get down to the nitty gritty and what this looks like at the ugly time. Um, Tracy, again, thanks for joining us. What, you know, I wanna launch into this segment and asking you when, what, what do you, what would you say, or how would you characterize the, um, the emotional state or just the state of the family? The average family that's calling you guys asking for help?
Speaker 4 00:11:47 Yeah. So when we get a phone call from a family member, it's typically, um, the adult children, usually the adult, the oldest adult daughter is typically who we get the phone call from. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. And, um, when we get that phone call, it's crisis. It is, mom and dad fell, they were in the hospital now, they went to rehab and rehab's given them 72 hours to discharge. And they are not safe to be home alone. They, we don't have senior housing picked out for them to move into. I'm flying into town to help them. I have to work, I have children, I have other responsibilities. How can you help me? <laugh>, are you available this afternoon to meet? And it's, you know, absolutely. We'll be there as soon as we can. Um, so typically it is crisis when people call us.
Speaker 2 00:12:43 So in that crisis, um, is there, uh, are, are they, do they generally understand what they need to get from that? Are there, are there a couple? What are the top, when you get in there to sit down with them and a team's gonna meet with them, what are some of the first, uh, piece of information that you're gonna wanna talk with, uh, that the families could be prepared for? Start thinking through ahead of time?
Speaker 4 00:13:03 Yeah. Well, generally, people don't even know what home care is. They say, oh, the case manager at the skilled nursing facility gave me your number. Yeah. Help you help me. They don't, they don't really even know what home care is. They don't know what they're being discharged home with. Um, so they just, it's so unfamiliar. Um, you know, the language regarding this, um, and one of the hardest things is they, it's a new normal. They don't know what they don't know. They don't know how much help their mom or dad are gonna need. They don't know can they, can they be alone at night? They don't. Yeah. They just don't know. And so it's really hard to make decisions when there's just so many unknowns.
Speaker 2 00:13:46 You know, one, one thing that we've heard others, uh, talk with families is in that moment, and if you're watching this and, and this is, you're in one of those crisis moments you're looking for, what's that first thing you're going for? Uh, one thing that's been recommended has been understanding ADLs, the activities of daily living. Uh, it's a terminology the insurance company throws out. So you may start, begin hearing it when you're in those care communities, or when you're in the rehab facilities or when you're in the hospitals. Um, they'll start talking through these as, you know, measuring the, those typical activities that somebody does in a day for themself from bathing themself, taking care of themself. And, and those matters. Is that, if, if a family member had had that, is that, is that a good place to start, uh, for you guys and, and getting an assessment as to how my family member could do something like that?
Speaker 4 00:14:33 Yeah, it's, so that's one of the things, you know, why, why, what got you into this moment here? Why are you calling us? Because I can tell you, nobody is calling me. Nobody literally is calling me saying, you know, my mom and dad are aging. Maybe in a few months we might, might need a caregiver to c like nobody's calling me <laugh> months in advance, because nobody really wants a caregiver, you know? Yeah. They don't that, that's a sign of aging. It's a sign of losing your independence. It's all of these things. So they're only calling me when they have no other option at that point. Um, so we go in and chat with them and say, okay, why, why are you in this situation? Well, they, they fell, they broke their hip, and they can't even stand up. Right. They can't use their walker. You know, they can't, yeah. So I need someone to come over. I need assistance with bathing, I need assistance with meals. We need help getting dressed, light housekeeping. What does this look like? You know, how many hours? What does this cost? You know, cost is, you know, the number one or two question that everybody asks us.
Speaker 2 00:15:39 Right? Yeah. And, and those are, I, I think because money come, money just adds the emotion, uh, of all of this. There's a, there's that panic. There's a sudden requirement for quite a bit of capital as you're making quite a bit of cash as you're making your way between hospitals or, or facilities or whatever that is. And some things will take it on really a, a note or you'll get billed, and that's all to come. But I think that's sitting in the back of people's head, they know that those, by the time they've come back into the house, especially if they're coming from that emergency, they know that where this bill's going and how all these are are, are starting to add up. They're starting to learn about all techs, or they're starting to see what, well, what, what's that enter? How does that work?
Speaker 2 00:16:19 What does Medicaid pair for? What do we pay for out of our pocket? What comes off of, you know, our personal finance to that? We've got some good episodes. In fact, last week's episode with Katie Brenneman would be a good one there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But once sitting, I think sitting down, um, with you guys and making an assessment of what mom or dad realistically can do today and what they're gonna be, do you think 60 days ahead, do you think, uh, 90 days ahead, 106 months, a year, what, what, where is a good starting point in your, in your opinion?
Speaker 4 00:16:53 Yeah. Even a, a month or two, you know, nobody knows when that crisis moment's gonna happen. When it's the diagnosis, the stroke, the fall. You don't know when that's gonna happen. So a lot of times, um, the children will visit right, for the holidays, and they will go into their home and say, wow, things are just not being kept up like I thought they were. Or, you know, they open their fridge, there's expired food. You know, there's just, there's just certain signs that you can tell that, Hmm. Things just aren't as they normally are used to be. Um, and so when you're starting to see these signs, or maybe mom and dad are getting more forgetful when you're talking to 'em on the phone, um, there's just some odd behavior when you're starting to see some of these signs. That's the time to think, you know, maybe we should just look at, because unfortunately, it's not if it's when, you know, it's when it's when.
Speaker 2 00:17:52 No, we do, you, you've made the, the, the comment, you know, before when none of us are getting outta here live <laugh>, we all, we all do face that. And you know, the other thing is you're, for whatever reason, we feel like we're by ourself when we're going through this, a hundred percent of us have had a parent <laugh>. If we're, if we're lucky, we still have ours with us. But there are other people around you that have gone through this. And that's why I, I think that's a lot of the harness that's obviously part of the mission of parent projects and what we look to do, um, and with particularly parent projects connect, just to start lining some of those things up with our software platform. I do wanna take a break off of this. We'll make a quick plug on the, on our new product with the, the new senior moves, or excuse me, the new parent projects connect, uh, application rebranding of that, just to keep things simple. Um, and, uh, and then I wanna come back and, and really break down. Let, let's talk through in preparation how that preparation looks. What are those questions you put into your mind, um, ahead of time? How do you prepare yourself just so that you've thought that ahead? And it's one less thing to figure out on the emergency. So we'll be back right, right after this.
Speaker 4 00:18:55 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:19:37 So we all want to be able to help our family as they get older. Sometimes, uh, we end up, uh, working that out of guilt or fear, uh, that, uh, what, what's coming next, how it's gonna work, what you've gotta deal with. We're almost certainly going to be tackling some challenge, uh, like an emergency, uh, as those things come on us. But there are certain things that we can do to prepare ahead of time for the conversation. So things go a little bit smoother. Uh, I've got Tracy Beagley with us tonight. Uh, and Sunland Home Care and Medical has put considerable resources and time and energy into the Phoenix Metro market helping us, uh, be able to understand and see, uh, how, how we are gonna take it, like the next 30 days, the next 60 days. So, uh, Tracy, let's back up then. Instead of looking forward to the next 30 or 60 in that conversation, maybe we can turn around if we will, and, and start thinking In the military, we would say, we would war game this <laugh>, you know, this is gonna happen. If this happened, then what would I do here? And then if this happened, you know, maybe I would do this. Uh, we're taught to do this in sports when we're young. It's not a, a foreign thing. Reversing applying it to this might be a little bit different. <laugh>. Yeah. Right, right. Similar thing. Uh, how would you word this? What, what would you, um, what would be some things we could start thinking about, uh, before, uh, that emergency happened?
Speaker 4 00:21:01 Yeah. Well, a couple things. Um, a a lot of our aging seniors have dementia. Okay. So if dementia's going, if, if something, if dementia's a diagnosis, what are the options? Well, you know, if it's in the early stages of dementia, a lot of people can still stay home. Um, but once it advances is when I see that it, that disease has such an effect on the family and the household, that a lot of times it's impossible to keep that person at home anymore. Be, um, and so if dementia happens to be a diagnosis, what do we do then? You know, okay, we can maybe have a caregiver come into the home during the early stages, but what if it gets to the point where we can't deal with this anymore because unfortunately it's an awful, terrible disease. Yeah. And, um, maybe that person is not safe at home anymore.
Speaker 4 00:21:59 You know, they're wandering, they're leaving. Where, where do we put that? Where do we go from there? And there's, you know, memory care communities, most memory care communities have wait lists. And so it's extremely important to know that, um, I encourage people, you know, if this is something you're considering, you need to go tour a couple of memory care communities. You might want to put your name on that wait list. Yeah. And then if and when, when the room actually comes up, you are ready to go at that time, you can always defer, no, we're not ready. No, we're not ready. But if you're not on a list, you have no options.
Speaker 2 00:22:37 Right. To the same also, even in senior living, independent living communities, I mean, those li so, so, you know, we, one of, you know, one of those things that, um, that those statistics I know that keep you and I in this fight really of, of trying to help families help themselves so much, is that have 48 million people today over the age of 65 on the entitlement program, social security, Medicare, Medicaid, that's gonna be at 90 million people in just seven years. They're not all gonna be sick, but that's 90 million people that are gonna be on that system and eating up that system. And the bandwidth of that system and how it relies to stuff, that's almost a doubling of the amount of people on it, is what's gonna push into that program. And I don't know about you, but I'm not seeing government figuring stuff out very well lately. <laugh>. Like, there's just, they're not rocking life. And so, you know, it's, there's going to be that it's gonna fall onto families, and, and you don't, you know, you don't wanna see families acting well, you don't wanna see families acting in guilt and fear or coming to the point to where they walk away from it and it leaves people abandoned, or, or people in really difficult predicaments where they get taken advantage of. So, yeah.
Speaker 4 00:23:44 And I think it's so important to make these decisions at a time when yeah, it's not so emotionally charged, right? Because relationships between, you know, the, the adult daughter, I'm the oldest adult daughter, um, between her and her parents, you know, it's when is that not emotionally charged? And, you know, there's seasons of life where you have better relationships. So it's important to do that when you can have a sensible conversation and not, oh my gosh, they're discharging me in 72 hours. Help.
Speaker 2 00:24:19 Yeah. Yeah. Well, you, okay, so you say it, the industry looks at it tongue in cheek, but, uh, but it's a real thing. Um, it is typically the oldest daughter that steps up. I'm oftentimes an industry in a room, and I am one in a slim minority, right? You don't see a lot of guys in their forties that have committed their life into, into working on these problems or taken it so personally. But that said, today, the amount of pull and the expectation, I mean, realistically of what, of, of what women in general are looking to accomplish, you throw into it dealing, uh, with, with this situation in crisis. And that's just, that's a layer that's, that's like unobtainium, like just not a, it's not realistic, um, segment. Yeah. So,
Speaker 4 00:25:05 And I wanna discount
Speaker 2 00:25:07 Yeah, no, no, please. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:25:10 I don't wanna discount. We have worked with some tremendous sons, you know, who are the adult children, and I don't wanna discount any of that because it's been, you know, their contr contribution is absolutely been amazing and appreciated. Yeah. I'm just saying, generally speaking, it's the adult daughter that's, that's calling us and doing the, the care managing.
Speaker 2 00:25:35 Well, without a doubt, it, I, I think there's also generally how we approach these things. Men, we, we can't help it. I mean, we, we engage everything in problem solving mode. It's just like even problems we're not supposed to solve or even get involved into. We look at it and it's a problem. I'm gonna solve it. I'm gonna work. It's the way that those things are, we're kind of built, we're wired a little differently in where we come into this, which oftentimes I think in something like this, if you're, you know, if you're an adult son that's dealing with this and trying to rally know that there is an emotional, like bedside manner to this, there is, there is a pace, um, of handling these things. There is difference of opinions. Two people raised in the exact same. This is, I know this sometimes my wife, this just made sense to her.
Speaker 2 00:26:18 She just got this, but it didn't for me until I heard it and listened to it happen. A lot of times, two people can be raised in the same household and have a very different opinion on a, on a single item, a plate on a, you know, or, or let alone the house or how it's laid out, or how it works, how spend money Yeah. Or how to spend money, right. Or how to raise money, or where that's gonna come from, and without a doubt. So those things, um, you have to leave room for that and, and allow for those differences to go. And that doesn't work really well in an emergency, in an emergency situation.
Speaker 4 00:26:50 Yeah. And something that we see a lot is like, who's the power of attorney? Who's the medical power of attorney? Who's over the finances? Those are not things that decisions you wanna take lightly. Right? And a lot of times we need to know who, you know, who is, who are we working with here?
Speaker 2 00:27:08 So what would be some of the key documents that somebody's gonna need to have in line, uh, when they pick up the phone to have the best transition or the, the best onboarding as possible for you guys? What, what type of stuff should they have seen?
Speaker 4 00:27:20 Yeah. Well, we'll definitely ask for the power of attorney, medical power of attorney, who, you know, who are the key decision makers. So it's always my goal, Tony, I want our seniors to be able to make their decisions on aging. Yeah. Um, I want them to feel in control. I want them to feel validated. Um, that's really, really important for me. And I think that's something, um, I know it's important for them. Um, it's just really important for everybody that's involved to realize this is a time in their life when they're feeling out of control. Yeah. And we need to be able to give them a sense of control, as, you know, as long as a safe, of course. But, uh, we need to give that sense of control. We owe it to them. Yeah. Um, these are adult children or adults that have spent years, you know, working in business, raising families, you know, they're smart, intelligent people.
Speaker 2 00:28:17 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Yeah. Completely. Yeah. Uh, there are, well, and even for those that didn't, even for those that didn't accomplish anything or didn't live, you know, any big life off of that, the human dignity and making decisions for yourself, you, I think you will find, you will find in any good business, and especially in our age friendly vendors across the board, that's what we're looking for in verification of age friendly, is those businesses who get that and understand that. And that's gonna be baked in. That's something that's gotta be baked into the ethos of the business, um, is, is that understanding in allowing that person to make as many of their decisions as possible. I like the way that you said it though, in that, um, you know, that, oh, man, you're talking to a, to the dignity of that person making, they're already losing so much of it. And so if you can help 'em, hold on. Um, yeah. Yeah. That's, I, I appreciate that perspective a lot. Yeah. Well, tell us, um, where, where, um, Tracy, where would, uh, where would a family find you if they're here in the Phoenix Metro market, um, where do they find Sunland and how they gonna to get more from you guys?
Speaker 4 00:29:23 Yeah, you can always go to our website, sunland home care az.com, and, um, you can pick up the phone and call us. Um, we are in the senior industry. We answer our phones twenty four seven <laugh>. Unfortunately, uh, our health does not allow us to, um, package it nicely Monday through Friday, eight to five <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:29:47 Yeah. Yeah. Right. <laugh>, it's, there are no bankers hours when it comes down to something to this. No. And did you, you guys do, um, you do some, some training and to help family members who are kind of coming into all of this? Is that, would you like to highlight that a little bit today and talk to us about it?
Speaker 4 00:30:04 Definitely. So we have a free, uh, community resource for, um, anybody that is taking care of a friend, neighbor, loved one. Um, we just wanted to help people in the community. They may or may not be able to afford our services, but there's just so many millions and millions of people who are providing, um, unpaid care to somebody in their community. We want to show you how to do it safely. We want you to know that you're supported, that there's a group here, um, and that you're seen, and we hope that you by doing this, that you will feel, um, it kind of a support group. You know, there's people here that we want you to be safe, okay. And feel confident. And, and a lot of times that's one of the biggest problems is people call us and say, I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to change a brief in bed. I don't know how to transfer somebody. And so, um, you know, let us train you so you, so you don't hurt your back and you, you know, you're safe. You're both safe.
Speaker 2 00:31:10 Tracy, I, uh, I appreciate just the service you and your family have provided to, to our community. It's, uh, it's awesome to have you in it. If you're joining from another market, this is a type of organization you're looking for, this is what you wanna see in a home healthcare company, uh, and they're out there, there are great people out there. Uh, you can reach in if you're looking in your market, uh, you can hit pair projects.com. We can help get you to those resources out in your particular market. Uh, Tracy, again, thanks for joining us today and sharing your time, talents, and treasures.
Speaker 4 00:31:40 You bet. Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 2 00:31:47 Well, that's it for the team this week, and thanks for joining us. If you've enjoyed the content, remember to subscribe and to share this episode on the app that you're using right now. Your reviews and your comments, they really help us expand our reach as well as our perspectives. So if you have time, also drop us a note. Let us know how we're doing for tips and tools to clarify your parent project, simplify communication with your stakeholders, and verify the professionals that you choose. You can find us on YouTube, follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Thanks again for trusting us. Until our next episode, behold and be held.
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