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Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 You're listening to senior moves.
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Hey everyone. And welcome to this Thursday's release of the podcast, where we're talking about the impacts of distance on our parent projects. Like always today's show will speak to many, but it's specifically oriented to family, friends, and professional advocates of the age who are stepping into leadership positions of a downsizing project for another. We're going to take a look at how to research, how to have conversations and how to follow up and particularly long-term and emergency length plans for managing your parents. In general, we'll kind of wrap this up as a tips, tricks and ideas for managing these situations for afar. Overall, there's some great information on how to approach, monitor, and address a range of distance related issues for your parent project. So I hope you guys enjoy our content today.
Speaker 0 00:01:04 You're listening to parent projects, a senior moves podcast production. Now here's your host, Tony. CBRE's
Speaker 1 00:01:15 Welcome everybody. And this week I just a good note. We've got Luis Marquez on with us, our business operations manager, Louis, thanks for joining us today and bring in some information to light making it real.
Speaker 3 00:01:28 Of course. Yeah, no, I, this topic really kinda hits home right now, especially that I'm living in Arizona right now. My parents are back in Oregon, so it's very interesting topic for me.
Speaker 1 00:01:41 So they were going to break down the topics into three segments, how to research and prepare for conversations and, and management of a situation from a distance, uh, the conversations that you you could have and should have. And then we're going to work through different follow-up from emergency planning, how to stay connected, uh, and some, uh, open openness and transparency tips and tricks to work through. But, uh, before we jump into those Luis, you've got a couple of news stories out of our e-magazine parent projects that you wanted to do. We wanted to integrate, we talked about integrating, can you share those with the audience and, and get them set up? Okay.
Speaker 3 00:02:20 Ah, so we have, um, one of the articles is six tips for long distance caregiving, and that was from where you live matters.org, um, interesting article and aging parents from a distance who aren't really just fine, and that one's from us news.com, uh, with the staff writer, Lisa.
Speaker 1 00:02:40 Wonderful. And we're going to integrate both of those stories into our conversation points today. So if you haven't already subscribed or aren't a member of senior moves, make sure you head over to senior moves.org, uh, because our e-magazine is a, uh, is a, um, a member content, uh, where can find these articles and a lot more. And with that, I had a Luis let's, let's really jump into this first segment, uh, in dealing with researching and preparing for how to tackle your, your parents from a distance you're, you're at a distance from your parents, just like I am I back, we, we have a similar thing, right? Our parents are back on Oregon while we're out here. What's that? What sits on your mind most heavily being away from your parents right now?
Speaker 3 00:03:26 Well, I mean, being the oldest of, um, so I'm one of the oldest of five siblings and, um, honestly I've been not to put any shame on my siblings, but I mean, as the oldest I've taken that position of like taking care of my parents, um, doctor's appointments and, um, anything that has to do with like bills and stuff like that. Usually it was it's me and my older sister. Um, well, not my older sister, but my, my younger sister, um, and being in a different state now, it's like, now I have to kind of like, okay, I'm in a different state. My parents are back in Oregon and now I gotta like, plan, like, what happens if something goes wrong? Like, do I need to leave and fly back to Oregon? Or, um, also just kind of step back and let my siblings also take part of that now, and maybe not be so controlling and, you know, like in assist. Yeah. And being that person for so long, um, it's a little harder than reading through these articles and in preparing for this. Um, it got me thinking a lot.
Speaker 1 00:04:34 Yeah. Well, there is a key thing to kick off. It's something, it seems that many of the families that we interact with and have helped when we were doing project management with families, one-on-one as well as families that since then, uh, is, is how to keep a realistic expectation of what you can and can't do. So I think one of the, the critical elements of researching and preparing for first for taking on a role of a, of a parent project is being real in your evaluation, right? What your skill sets are. If you, if you move, uh, then you probably need to do a reassessment from where you're at. I know, especially once we get into talking about the emergency planning later in the episode, that is something that very clearly comes into play, but, uh, yeah, evaluating what's realistic for, for you, particularly chances are, if you're listening to this podcast, this listener is you're likely the person who stepped up like the wheeze has and will step up, uh, in the case of a situation or are stepping up now for your parent project, the key place we'd like to start all projects is this idea of goal.
Speaker 1 00:05:58 When we get into goal oriented, one of the key things that we talk with people about is the confused mind says no. And, uh, the, another great saying that wraps around that is that when people know why they can deal with a heck of a lot of how so when crafting a why around a goal for your aged loved one, or the person that you're working for, uh, w something that they want to accomplish becomes a great way to come back to things that can indeed be done. Uh, and if you've set that on top of your planning and then start evaluating what you can do towards that goal. Now, I think you're moving in a much better way to research, which then leads you into exploring different options. Have you and your siblings, Louise, have you had conversations of, of different types of options, what may happen longterm or where you may go for, uh, to help your parents accomplish what they want to in retirement?
Speaker 3 00:06:58 Not really in, again, we, we haven't gotten to the conversation just because it just seems so far away, but now, like kind of doing the work that we're doing here, it gets me thinking and it's conversations that we need to start having. And just setting goals is like, Hey, where do we, what do we want to see? Where do we want to see our parents in, you know, three years? Like, what are, what are those goals? And, um, I mean, we've gotten goals to the sense of like, when I moved over here was like, Hey, what are the goals that we want? Like, if I'm moving, I'm leaving, you know, who's going to do what what's going to happen. Um, we've gotten that far, but like thinking like retirement plans and stuff like that, we really haven't sat down and talked about it. And, you know, that's something that I think soon, you know, maybe the next time I go back, um, and visit Oregon and really just sit down and be like, Hey, what is the plan? What are, what are our goals? Not just for my, our parents, but how is that going to affect us in our life too? Because, you know, we're all now creating different lives with, with wives and husbands and kids and stuff. And life is just going to get crazier
Speaker 1 00:08:07 Lately. And what is the best time? When is the most likely time that your, you and your family are going to have a conversation about something like this?
Speaker 3 00:08:15 I think that is just kind of making it happen. I mean, we, we all live in the same town, um, super, not from far from each other until I'm a terrorist zona, but now it's kinda like next time I go in there, which hopefully will be, um, Thanksgiving, um, and just really sit down or even have a phone conversation to start the conversation like, Hey, have we thought about like, what is in three years where we're, where are we going to be at? Like, my dad's going to retire pretty soon, um, or right around the corner. What is that going to look like? You know, what are, what is their living style going to be, how we going to be able to help and how are we preparing for it? And maybe, um, maybe just starting the conversation over the phone and just really sit, setting aside time to sit down and be like, Hey, we've talked about this on the phone. Like, let's get, let's get talking and seeing what we're going to do for the future.
Speaker 1 00:09:13 Uh, and that's great family, family meetings. I love hearing how much you talk about the getting other family members involved and just that aspect of it. It kind of takes when you're able to plan ahead. It kind of takes a lot of the attention, not a lot, but it takes a significant amount of the emotion out of it when you're not responding to a situation or how somebody, what action a sibling did take, and everybody's trying to unpack it and rework through that. Uh, so that proactive, that productivity is great. One thing we talk with people about is typically it's going to be, when you're doing that planning, it happens to be holidays. It seems to be one of the, the, the earliest opportunities or the big opportunities that family members start discussing stuff, or they go to see it. But, uh, it's, it's, we do stress it's, it's important to try to plan your conversations, uh, around holidays, not, not during a holiday, but at a different time.
Speaker 1 00:10:10 And there's a couple reasons for that. Uh, number one, the conversation should happen in person, especially when you want to, when you want to really get an evaluation and where your parent project, uh, the co how complicated your parent project is going to be, you need to see what's what, and that's a very difficult thing to get an understanding of just from the phone. Uh, you also need to reduce assumptions that are happening and, uh, you know, those assumptions, they say first reports are always wrong, uh, or at least usually wrong. Uh, and assumptions are a key way that we get ourselves in trouble with all types of relationships in our life. Uh, this is a huge one we've talked, we've talked about before, and we'll continue to talk about, uh, typically an adult child's assumptions about what their parents are doing, or why they're doing it as based off of their experience of the first, you know, 17 or 18 years of their life.
Speaker 1 00:11:04 Uh, and their view of their parents were whatever viewed their parents allowed them to see because her parents want their kids to see the best version of themselves. So those, uh, so our assumptions are typically built off of sometimes a false narrative, uh, the best version of that, and not necessarily the most accurate, and particularly after 20, 30, 40, 50 years has gone by your parents have continued to evolve. So getting there in person, seeing what those things are, there's nothing like seeing, uh, an anticipating and understanding driving habits, uh, other than seeing driving habits and what that looks like, and look at the vehicle and seeing how comfortable and getting to ask them questions in a non-threatening way. How, how comfortable do you feel driving mom or dad, uh, where are there places you don't like to drive to anymore, uh, to, to find out and to start getting a synergy, uh, or some type of pattern around things that they're looking to avoid?
Speaker 1 00:12:01 Yeah, I'd also say in the planning, planning, your visit is extremely important. And a lot of people are looking for, for what to do when you do hit that visit. So going back to the family meetings, uh, or the visits staging during, or having the conversation, we're trying to do an evaluation during a, a time where everyone's expecting to be there, kind of allows everyone to be on their best behavior. And, and if you think about Christmas, you think in your own home is what happens on your house on Christmas day or Thanksgiving day, the best representation of what Monday, September 9th feels like to you, uh, and chances are, it's not right. Uh, it's so planning that and thinking about that, um, in your visits, planning ahead, here's a couple of quick tips. We talked about driving already, uh, take a look at laundry and how that looks take a look, uh, is it caught up?
Speaker 1 00:13:01 Can they stay up with where it is or the washing things that are clean, um, male in general, to figure out how that's going? Uh, are they opening mail is what type of males coming in? That was a big thing for me that saw that we had a problem. I recognized right away that, uh, we had multiple not-for-profit organizations that rec that, that recognized and sighted in on my grandmother, that she would write them a check or God help us. She opened a credit card to continue giving them money. Uh, and they, yeah, they just, they just ate her up. So, you know, pay paying a little attention to that. One way to, to look at that activity are those ADL's, uh, activities of daily living. And there's a, there's a great explainer, uh, in consignor moves.org. Uh, but the, they give you the basic activities.
Speaker 1 00:13:57 And if you can walk yourself through those and monitoring and giving yourself the best opportunity to, um, to view people going, you're your family members going through it, that's the best way to go. Um, so that, hopefully that gives you kind of a baseline of, of what to look at, uh, how to prep for that ahead of time in your visit plan, your visit out to do that at the right timing, involve other family members. Um, Luis, do you have, you know, now that you're gone, uh, is, do you have a particular family member that is, is better in touch with maybe medical issues with your family?
Speaker 3 00:14:33 We're all very, we're all very in tune with what's going on with our parents. Um, I always kind of go with, with my sister. So she's the second oldest, but just because if, and also culture, um, is takes a big part in, in, in this situation in our culture is we're talking about like, you know, parents are like, you know, they're going to either live with you or you were taking care of them. You know, they took care of us, you know, and we're very like family oriented. So all five of us are in tune. If something happens to, you know, recently a couple of years ago, my mom broke her leg. Um, she fell, she broke her leg and we have a, you know, we had a group chat and we're texting and like, Hey, what's going on? What's the update? So we're all like very in tuned, but it's always, either me or my, my sister, which is a son, uh, second oldest who, who really knows the medical, you know, what's going on.
Speaker 3 00:15:30 And then the rest of their siblings are there to support us, like, okay, well, how's going on, let me know if you need something. If we can't drive them to an appointment they're going to make the time. Um, which is great because communicate, we're communicating openly. We have to. And I think that, you know, going into, you know, conversations like is there is the mail, the laundry. Sometimes we just have to have an open conversation with our parents and be like, Hey, what's going on? Right. You know, and opening that up. It's gonna it's, it's what really helped us. I know that I had to have that conversation with my dad with, uh, financial stuff. My dad is really like, oh, um, you know, he pays the bills. He, we don't, I don't, you know, I don't need to know anything about his financial stuff, but we're in the shift where, Hey, now I'm getting older. You're, you know, you're getting older. We need to openly and be like, Hey, I'm leaving to a different state. I need to make sure that you're taken care of before I can make this leap. And we have to make that conversation just openly
Speaker 1 00:16:34 Doing so with multiple injects or having other family members while one family member, uh, might not be the go-to all the time on that particular item, that might be someone that mom or dad has a, he has talked to about the situation or expect, you know, transparently expressed their thoughts behind that. Uh, and so when you're able to work with your siblings and other family members or close friends and relatives, now that can go a long way when we go into this last segment, which is really that follow-up because especially if you're working on an assumption, uh, going back to defeating those assumptions, a great way to do that is to draw in perspective of other family members or other people that are close to, um, to the age of person. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:17:20 And it's just in a support. I mean, going, I mean, away from my parents and stuff like my grandma passed seven years ago, but we went through a harsh, like medical history with her. And my mom was the one that like, knew from beginning to end what medication she needed, what, everything she, uh, the times that she took them, what doctor appointments and stuff. And sometimes we had to leave on vacation and had to go deal with, you know, other family events and the, uh, my mom's other siblings had to take care of them. Um, take care of my grandma. So my mom was always that resource, like, Hey, but we had a plan with her where my mom had written everything down. The pills that she took at 7:00 AM at 12, at three at eight, and the instructions. And that was very helpful. And it goes again, you know, with the open communication and really just having, not just one person know what's going on, but having the, you know, a little bit, you know, two, three more people knowing exactly what the plan is. Um, because that helped a lot because my mom could easily left to, you know, on a trip and knowing that my grandma was going to be okay with someone else and her medication, if something went wrong
Speaker 1 00:18:33 Well. And in involving you start talking to those medication, thanks to your mom, stepped into that role. I know for a lot of our members, uh, they're going to not have that necessarily that relationship because maybe they live too far, don't have a sibling that's right there. So let's give them a couple of tips on some people that they could reach out to that might be able to help them stay connected, which is follow, staying connected, having emergency plan. And at the same time, um, communicating openly and transparently. Those are those, those, those key factors in staying connected. Uh, let's talk through, um, people. Yeah. So Luis, if, if I don't have a family member that can drop in or stay, uh, who, who could your family, who do you think a family could, could turn to or ask about?
Speaker 3 00:19:18 I think neighbors are going to be your number one because your neighbors, I'm not going to say that they see each other every day, but I mean, they're observing, you know, they're going to, at some point every single day, they're going to see your face or they're going to see your parents face, um, at some point, but I would definitely suggest, um, you know, neighbors, uh, would be your number one,
Speaker 1 00:19:38 I think. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's imperative that, you know, uh, the neighbors, if you have that opportunity to know, uh, also, you know, friends of a church or those key friends and relationships that your family or that they have, uh, and being able to know how to, how to check in with them and how they can check in with you, if they recognize things. Uh, those, I, I think that's absolutely key in, in staying connected, uh, doing so in a transparent way,
Speaker 3 00:20:07 In a simple, um, w um, sometimes I know it's difficult here also is that maybe you don't know your neighbors, you know, but at some, at some point, you know, you have to just do an introduction. And we have before in my parents have a neighbor that lives right in front of the house, and they was two elderly, you know, uh, people, you know, amazing people and, um, his wife passed away. And then after that, he was still living by himself there. And we really didn't interact with them. We were just kind of like the new neighbors, but then we started seeing like him leaving the garage open all night, and then the lights were turned off. And he, he was, he, he was loss of, so we had to make that connection with the, with the, with the, his daughter. Um, and it was like, Hey, can you give us your number? Just in case something happens, you know, like we can get ahold of you and it's just making that introduction. Cause sometimes you just need to.
Speaker 1 00:21:02 Yeah, absolutely. And in the, in the U S news article, uh, Sandy mark would the CEO of the national association of area agencies on aging, which there's a series of regions of those across the country. If you're not familiar with them, uh, where we are happened to be in, in region one here in Arizona, uh, he talks about transportation, really being a huge tell and a huge issue for seniors. They need that to get around the need. Um, it's, it's a great indicator of trouble. And I got to tell you, there is no, but botches transportation, both young and old, like neighbors in the neighborhood attention. So cars are moving up and down the neighborhood and they will have no problem letting you know, if there's property damage or something happening. So yeah, neighbors are a great one. You know, one of the key concepts to, to, I think always put forward is, again, transparency works both ways.
Speaker 1 00:21:55 You want your family member, you want the age person that you're working for to be very transparent with you about what's going on, but they have to feel like you're not trying to get them a working around them. And so one thing that, uh, that seems very, very, um, beneficial is getting them to see you as a resource that prolongs their, uh, their, their independence instead of somebody who's looking to challenge their independence. And so if you're, if you're constantly asking those questions and approaching conversations from an aspect of, Hey, what resources can I bring to you that will enable this to happen, or to keep you working through this thing one they're going to help they're going to help themselves. And you're probably going to find more better resources searching from that perspective, online talking to people and organizations, then you will, uh, from the perspective of man, I have this big thing to take care of and it just sucks and it's on my shoulders and how do I deal with it as little as possible?
Speaker 1 00:22:56 Um, I think you'll, you'll find that you get to be more transparent to them just as they can be more transparent to you, and that will keep the relationship going. Uh, one of those ways that you help keep them on board. And one of the earliest ways that's talked about in one of the articles is a caregiver. I having somebody, uh, you know, drop in and, you know, if, if you know, your, your family member or whomever you're working with was in the hospital stay, or, or maybe they just had a quick doctor's visit it, wasn't going well. Or they're starting to, you're seeing some of those ADL slip, having someone come into the home that that can prolong their independence and shore them up. And you being the person that helps bring that person to bear, uh, that's a tough conversation. Uh, there is a way to, uh, to approach that from a, let's keep you in charge of you longer.
Speaker 1 00:23:49 Uh, but it is a slippery slope. I have no delusions about how difficult that is. I've watched many of our families struggle to have that conversation and avoid a parent immediately saying, oh, you're just trying to get somebody to come in and take things away from me now that, that when you're hearing those comments, it speaks more to the uneasiness. And there's probably a new approach that needs to be looked at at the, at the highest level. Um, so the last thing I really want to cover here is emergency planning. We, uh, you know, we had a great conversation, uh, over lunch, uh, earlier Luis, that I really enjoyed with you on, uh, you know, both thinking through the three, you know, three different levels of a plant, right? And in, uh, I'm a military emergency planner by trade before I got into this. So one, one aspect I get to actually touch and bring into this is when doing your planning, recognizing you kind of need a 24 hour plan, a 72 hour plan and a two week plan.
Speaker 1 00:24:55 And they're very distinctive in what they can bring to you and why those might be a great starting point. The first, the 24 hour plan is usually smaller severity issues right there. Your, your mom hits something and her car's got to go into the shop because the tires gotta be fixed and S and somebody's gotta be able to cover down to, so that interruption to life is as little as possible, particularly a four days a week might be occupied with critical thing activities for them around aging, uh, health care appointments, or, or, um, or the gym or other things to just keep their mental attitude in the game. So the 24 hour plan is, and that's probably a particular person who's going to be closed that can do that pretty quickly. Thank you.
Speaker 3 00:25:38 Who can help me within 24 hours that to be able to help my parents out.
Speaker 1 00:25:44 Right. Right, right. And then, then that the 72 hour plan, that's kind of a different level of pain. The 72 hour plan is likely somebody who, and yet you can't plan Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I don't think that's fair. I think plan it. I think, honestly, I think you have to plan it like Sunday morning so that like nothing's open all day and Monday's a holiday. So think of it like last weekend, right? It happened last Sunday, that Sunday morning at 5:00 AM, and it's going run, uh, in the next 72 hours from there. Uh, so that's, uh, that's a level of a pain where somebody is going to have to be able to break away, uh, and, and stay. That may be an overnight hospital visit, uh, something to that nature where in 72 hours, if they have a pet or someone, a home, usually that circumstance, someone's gonna also have to step in, not only to keeping them in the game, but keeping the household and keeping the rest of their life, uh, up to snuff so that they don't walk into a bigger problem than they w that they, then they got themselves into, with whatever the situation was.
Speaker 1 00:26:52 Uh, who's gonna feed that animal. Who's going to make sure the water got turned off and the stove got turned off for these different things there. So that's kind of that 72 hour plan, the, the two week plan is, uh, is the high, one of the, the next level of pain. And, and you, you could plan to the end is of the world. The reality is generally I find that a two week plan is going to engage somebody who's going to have to travel. So, and it's going to cover a shifting down of things. So we, this is what I appreciated with you. We talked about, you know, you don't have any kids, uh, and where at first blush, I might think, oh, mom's going to need something for two weeks. You're the guy you're going to get on an airplane. You're going to head up there.
Speaker 1 00:27:36 You can work from about anywhere and you do that. But you brought up the reality when we were talking, it might be that your sister's the best person to be with mom. And you can backfill for your sister and whatever those things are, because there, she might be the best person for that tenure of a, of a two week kind of plan. Or, uh, now you're rotating with her into a situation in and out back to her life. So don't just think of it as an all or nothing in the solution. Think about what tag team you might look there. Think about. Yeah. Think about who's the best person to do. What two weeks is probably going to impact an employer and you're going to have to work around that type of a plan. Uh, two weeks is also long enough. You need to cover one of the, you know, the last thing I want to cover here are your travel options.
Speaker 1 00:28:24 Yeah. You know, Louis, you've you fly home, is that right? Most of the time, if you've got to go, what are the other ways that you would? So, w you know, we learned, we learned with my grandmother when COVID hit, literally, we went within a, within a four hour segment or a warning. We went from my mom getting to spend every day of every day of the week for four years, with my grandmother to, we had four hours to make one statement to where then couldn't see her for over four and a half months. Uh, and then that visit was very difficult, uh, you know, behind masks and shields and, and, uh, communication barriers. And it was very confusing to her, and she was scared. And a lot of, a lot of things were going on. Um, you know, that, that, that emergency plan of travel options, uh, is something that's critically important. So, uh, what you could, you have to plan for what happens if you can't fly. All right. Are you going to, I guess for you, do you drive or train?
Speaker 3 00:29:31 I think that it would have to be, yeah. Either driving or taking the train out. What are my other options? I mean, how about if I don't have the money to, to get an expensive, you know, a flight and, and, and, you know, maybe I need to drive, maybe I need to take the train or there's other options, maybe take the bus. Um, but really thinking about it now, as we were having this conversation, I'm like, Hey, my first choice is to fly, but what if I can't fly? You know, like, what am I, what are my other options? And I think people just having that conversation and having that in mind will just prepare you for anything that comes along the way.
Speaker 1 00:30:12 Yeah, absolutely. Well, and do we use to have a bereavement fair, which was something you could really work through on, on most forms of transportation and public transportation. That is a very difficult thing to find today. Uh, and you find more often that people are rallying and trying to work through a collection of maybe airline miles and donation of airline miles to work something out if you're going to be flying across the country or, or something to that nature. So, uh, thinking about those things ahead of time, I think are going to be pretty key for you. So give me a, I mean, that, that that's a realm of stuff. Uh, we we've covered how to research and some tips and tips and tricks there, uh, some conversations and how to prepare for it, making sure that you're having it in person planning, those visits well involving your family members, uh, in those conversations. And we've come through that up and emergency planning how to stay connected, the importance of transparency and, um, and communicating openly, um, uh, across this. Is there anything else you think we sh we can really draw out of these articles? Uh, Luis,
Speaker 3 00:31:16 Um, one thing I did and we did, and we talked about it earlier is about how often do we need to change these emergency plans? And you brought a really good point. Is it kinda, just depends on what's going on with, you know, with, with your life? Is it a major change, you know, like COVID, or is it something that, you know, a move or is it something that may be like, for example, like me, you know, that plan would have changed as soon as I moved to Arizona who is going to be the main contact. Now who's going to be helping my parents out, um, when I'm not, you know, I'm not going to be here, you know, I can't, I mean, I could be on the phone, but that's just going to be more difficult. Um, and how often do we need to change these, um, emergency plans? And, you know, you did bring a good point on, on that is kind of just depends on what's going on. Maybe you don't need to change it for a long time, but maybe you need to be changing it constantly, depending on what's going on.
Speaker 1 00:32:10 Great, great. Uh, absolutely appreciate that a lot. And that is where we're going to leave you this week, everyone. So those are your tips, tricks, and ideas, and managing of the impacts of distance on your parent project. Thanks for joining us, Louis, thanks for popping on and as always, and supporting us there really appreciate you.
Speaker 3 00:32:34 Of course, it was awesome. Getting to talk to you through this topic. Thank
Speaker 4 00:32:38 You. And that's it for the senior moves team this week. Thanks for joining us. If you enjoy the content, remember to subscribe to this podcast on that app that you're using right now, the reviews and comments, they help us help you by expanding our reach and our perspectives. So if you have time, please drop us a note and tell us how we're doing for more tips and tools to get your parent project moving while maintaining dignity and downsizing. You can find us on YouTube, follow us on Facebook or Instagram and join [email protected]. Thanks again for joining us this week and we'll catch you next Thursday.
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