Episode Transcript
[00:00:45] Speaker A: So necessity may be the parent of all invention or action as we really get going off of stuff. But truth be told, as we get into a family project, a lot of times there's a lot of emotional baggage that's hanging over the top of us. Might feel like a weight on your chest or a frustration, or it's just something that's keeping you from getting it or understanding it, even though you may really want to. Want. You may really want to jump in. Today we're going to break down and we're going to move beyond the Walls with Kylie Cross. We're going to sit down and think about how to attack that, understand it for what it is, some great techniques and some thought processes for moving around it so that we can get in, we can begin to repair, to forgive, and to help the generation in front of us and behind us. Stay tuned, because the Aging in America Parent Projects podcast begins right now.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: You're listening to Aging in America, a Parent Projects podcast production. Now, here's your host, Tony Sievers.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Okay, well, hey. So you've got the energy. You've decided, okay, I have to do this. I want to do this. You're going to start taking those first steps, and sure enough, one foot in front of the other is something that you believe you can get done. And then you hit a wall, and that wall maybe is clear to you, and maybe it's not. Maybe it's something that happened years ago. Maybe it's something that just happened in the immediate side. Today we're breaking down with Kylie Cross from Beyond the Walls. She's going to talk with us about this beautiful concept of understanding, how to put this into perspective, this understanding of the trauma that we maybe have faced when we were younger, the impact on how we're looking at some conversations and things that are happening in our life today, and some great tips and tricks for moving around it. Hey, Kylie. Welcome to the Aging in America podcast.
[00:02:49] Speaker C: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited just to speak to your audience and to find out about parent projects and what you guys are up to. So I know this will be a really great conversation.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: I think it's going to be a blessing for anybody as they come across it for today and for years to come. So break it down beyond. Start with us. Maybe tell us a little bit about you with beyond the Walls and what. What got you into this from that. That journey of yours and. Yeah. And what you're doing today with beyond the Walls.
[00:03:19] Speaker C: Yeah, that'd be great. So I started beyond the walls about two years ago. And I have just slowly been being whittled down, prepared, trained honestly by God to just stop being afraid in my life and being trapped behind my own walls. I think I've lived a very rigid, fearful life, most of it in hopes to like prevent pain, to prevent failure, to prevent honestly then success because I'm so timid about it. And eventually I just found myself just so trapped in my own life, feeling like a victim, feeling resentful, feeling just bitter about being a victim in my life. And so I had a turning point way back in 2016. I'd been married, I was a stay at home mom and was able to just really kind of break through and find, figure out in my blind spots why I was feeling the way that I was feeling. And since then it's just been like small step upon small step of coming out of my shell, really believing in who I am and my value and trying to rediscover and re choose for myself a life that was going to give me purpose and joy again. And so that's really what beyond the walls is for me is being able to help women really go through that same process in their own lives.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: The, you know, that, that I think is a, it's a retrospective or that, that, that look at us as something that really comes around trauma and big changes in our life and those pivots, like you'd have that big move that you had that necessitated from things that ripped you out of where you were at and planted you in some place new and, and trying to kind of carve out that sense of value of stuff that I know is in your story and your personal story, you know, for, for those of us who maybe that majority of that change might not maybe even be our life, at first it looks like it's somebody else's life. It looks like a grandparent or a parent. But really the deeper you get into it, the more you see, you know, either the bias that you're taking into it or the I don't know what. Without kind of victiming it or working from that standpoint. Can we just speak to the truth of trauma? Like just maybe rip something off of that? When you talk about trauma, what are we talking about here in general?
[00:05:45] Speaker C: You know, I really believe like at the core we're really talking about our identity because the things that happen and that's what I feel like kind of what you're speaking to is it's so easy for us to get, get lost in the circumstances. Somebody else did something to me, there was some kind of an injustice, something out of my control, something in my control. But I really believe like all of those things. Things, if we really keep going deeper and deeper, it's about like, am I worthy, Am I enough? Am I seen and am I heard? And our abilities to like, boy, when traumatic things happen, we make it mean I'm no longer valuable or it's too late. I'm not enough. I should have done it differently. They should have done it differently. And it's this balance of really, are we lovable or not? Right. And I think there's so much fear, there's so much significance on making mistakes and feeling rejected that to me, I really believe like that's the center. And when we can really, I think in my coaching specifically, I think my goal is to first get our identity out of the world, get our identity out of our parents approval or not approval, or the world or societies like who do, who is telling us our value? And ultimately I believe it's, it's in our leader and God who designed us in the first place. But whether people want to go that far or not, the first step at least is to stop letting other people dictate our value. And ultimately the safest space is to let you know, the one who created us to be the one who really gets to have us say, if he loves me, then I'm loved. Can we accept it?
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Well, and maybe sometimes I find that helping people move along is about like moving water. Instead of trying to stop it or dam it up, you just kind of move it in a direction it's going. And one thing that worked for me, and it worked for me with my kids, it worked for me with young men and women I led in the military, that I led in corporate America and others, when it come through, especially around faith, was there is this thing to let other people kind of help shape where you feel your worth is and where that is. That became a natural place to just say, okay, well look, if you're going to let somebody else do that, let me show you about what, what God's doing in your life. Because he's got something to say on this, right? Yeah. And you just kind of just naturally lead that behavior. So if you're going to be inclined, if you're going to be client, you're curious off of that man, pick up a Bible, just talk to somebody, get into that and just start, start chipping away into something from there. He really has a lot to say. He actually has a lot to say.
[00:08:20] Speaker C: When it Comes down and we have a lot to say, actually, what we say, he says, I think that was really at the root where I felt like I thought I was really being honest with myself. Like, well, I said, God said. I said my parents. I said, fill in the blank. Said, right?
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:08:36] Speaker C: And how do we clean that out?
[00:08:39] Speaker A: Yeah, Your. Your. Your eye. Your eyes are forward, right. And you're. It's very difficult to get that. That perspective. I think that's one thing that I really enjoyed, too. When I got into one of the first. First things that we were talking about this morning. I was in the morning. We do a daily devo with our kiddos before everybody takes off. And today's Daily Diva was. Was talking about how, look, in great times, it can be really easy to give thanks to God and praise God and push that stuff out. It's actually really, really hard and tough times to, like, trust and, like, lean into this one and allow him for what that is. And to take. That's hard to accept that at that point in time. I mean, even at a Bible study a couple of weeks ago, we were talking with a bunch of other families, and we really were diving into, you know, what is the. When people. How difficult it is or how other family members look or how they might look to other family members when they're like, okay, I'm gonna offer this one up in prayer, or I'm gonna work off of this, and how that gets received from one thing to the next. But I don't know. That's exactly where we thought we were gonna run down the pipeline with all of this. But what I really like from this is that there is a need to get some perspective here.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: If you're running it, what I hear from you is, look, if you're running into a wall, you're hitting a wall. One of the first common things is to. To maybe stop running into it and to get some perspective against where you are. Is that, am I picking up what you're throwing down?
[00:10:01] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. Because if you can't identify the wall, Right. Like, it's almost like being able to even just pause and say, what is this? Right. One of the things that I say a lot is like, what are you so upset about? And if we can't just put an actual word to the upset and then continue down, right. That path of, like, so what am I making it mean about me? What am I making it mean about them? How am I afraid I don't feel enough? Like, what's it really being triggered? Because Then once we know what it is, then we get to re choose it or we recreate it to something different that's more honest and helpful.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Completely. Completely. And as you know, emergency management was where I've spent a lot of my career, especially off the military side of the house. And one of the things that happens in chaos and in emergencies and when all of the chemicals are releasing out of your brain, you get like tunnel vision, right. Things like literally in some cases, when I was a police officer even you watch when those woo woo lights and sirens come on, like things get dark literally. And you're trained to like shift your head to open like left and right, like and so they muscle memory teach you in the academy to flip your head back and forth to open it back up. The, the what seems to really come along the majority of times. I won't put a percentage on it because I can't. I would say the majority of times in this is that you land in a place of assumption as your brain starts working through stuff. And man, if you're, if you're hitting a wall or don't understand, it's okay to not know. To be able, I think up front to know what the wall is and give yourself some grace. But you have to at least identify the wall, look left and right and make that maybe one of those first priorities or else the, the natural, the natural go to the corners element that people, that family gets into means that there's an absence of conversation. And in the absence of conversation, people listen to whoever the heck's talking. And a lot of times that your brain that's flipping that around. Right. So how does that talk? Okay, well, hey, what I'd, what I'd like to do now is start really dialing this down if we could into, into, you know, that parent project mentality when, when families are trying to get a loved one moving forward and working with this.
So you've had, you don't have a parent that has worked from this, but you're getting this opportunity right now. You have a parent who's flat out in the throes with a grandparent, right?
[00:12:27] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: So this is something that you can see. Can you see some of this, can you see walls and all that kind of stuff? That's got to be really fascinating for you.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: It really is. You know, and well, and what's. I feel truly blessed. And it came way before when I was 13. This became a very intentional thought to me for whatever reason that now through beyond the walls it just like sheds so much more Light on it, to expand it even farther. But When I was 13, we always lived kind of out of state, far from family, and we moved back to where I was born. I was born in Michigan and so I moved with my family. I'm 13, my grandma lives there. So my mom's mom and my mom's mom's mom. Right. So I'm at a lunch table with my mom, my grandma and my great grandma, and I'm watching as a 13 year old who is not offended, not involved, not emotionally engaged.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:30] Speaker C: Like not responsible in any way.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:33] Speaker C: That I got a front row seat to watching my mom figure out how to support her mom, managing her mom and the pain and the frustration. So me and my mom. Right. So sorry if it gets confusing with all the moms. Right. Like, we're kind of getting able to have these conversations of watching the older two. Right. Watching my grandma and my great grandma. Sort of like the angst and the emotional pressure and the pressure. Like we can see kind of the, like just the way that you kind of fall apart at the end. Like, she was so angry. Like, my great grandma was just isolated and angry and frustrated. And you can feel and see all the pressure of the disappointment that my grandma was experiencing and just wanting so badly to please her and to help her. And so it started this conversation between me and my mom that was like, okay, we're not going down that path. Like, I'm not going to be treated that way. Right. Like, we just started this dialogue that was like, when we get to that stage, because we will be there someday, how do we want to treat each other? How do we want to show up? Like, my mom got to kind of decide, like, I don't want to show up like great grandma did. Like, so what are we going to do now to prepare for that day? And so now that, I mean, my great grandma passed probably, I'd say less than 10 years from that point. Like in my 20s, I think she had passed. And so now, like every year that we get older, you know, we've all shifted up that ladder. So now I just have my grandma and my mom.
And so being able to kind of keep having those conversations in an, in an even more honest and even closer kind of level and degree. And I think continuing, I'm still continuing to have that conversation to prepare my heart for the someday when it's my mom at that stage, but then also thinking down to my daughter, like, how are we still breaking those generational misunderstandings? Honestly, when you said assumptions, I think so Many times we make those assumptions, and oftentimes they're built on misunderstandings. And so having the space to go back and clarify things up and allow it to, like, seek understanding is the best place to be.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so fascinating. When I was younger, the knowledge that I picked up or I thought was when, you know, when things are bad, you just. People need space. And you move space aside, you do that. The older I get, the more. The more chaos I see that space chooses in this. And maybe it's a misunderstanding of what that is. Right. I mean, we tend to be feast or famine people and swing from one thing to the next. But then I also come back through. I remember reflecting on this so strongly, maybe 10 years ago or so, I started thinking about it when I'm addressing, like, well, how did I get conditioned to understand that? Or what. How that played out? And I started thinking about, well, man, when I'm punishing one of my kids, like, you send them to the room, you separate them, right? You isolate them, you put them over to there, which is the opposite of dealing with whatever the problem is. It has to come through and it allows what. Allows them to stew. And they sit back there. And then I remember. I deliberately remember thinking about, man, I remember getting sent by and I remember where I was. I could actually remember what I stood upon. And almost, you know, now I can laugh at myself and go, well, of course, my dad, you know, didn't just want me to be, you know, like, alone and by myself and not get to go out with people or do whatever that thing would be, but that set a tone of. That set a tone of assumption that then became. Those would become underlying assumptions later in life until they got addressed.
[00:17:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: Like, oh, yeah, well, that's. Yeah. Yeah. So that's. That's a fascinating side.
[00:17:26] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Do you think how when you and your mom today, how would you say this has changed or watching that happen with your. With your great grandmother, how do you think that's changed as your mom's going through it with your grandmother now? Do you guys have conversations about that? You guys get to talk about it?
[00:17:45] Speaker C: Yeah, we do. And I think what. It's allowed, you know, I think what's been a really cool tone about it is I think it breeds humility and grace. Because when we feel safe to just talk about, like. Because there's two things happening. There's the logistics, the circumstances, the business side of things, but then there's our feelings and our emotions about it and how we feel about it. Right. And it brings up old wounds, maybe old scars. Like, this is how it always goes. This is how it's always made me feel. And sometimes we weren't ready to address it or it needs to be readdressed. And so I think the way that, you know, the conversations go now for me and my mom is we've continued to just. We're building and nurturing a close relationship today that we can speak honestly of. Like, man, when you. I'm feeling pressure, I. We're feeling disappointed. Like we're learning how to nurture our relationship so that we both feel loved and seen and supported and heard as individuals. And I think being able to have that conversation for me and my mom, I think brings her the strength, the courage to be able to then keep having those conversations with her mom. And I think. And they've had a lot of great years to have those things. And I feel so grateful too, that I have that relationship with my grandma. I'm able to say things to my grandma that my mom cannot say, or vice versa. Right. Like being able to. It's not quite as personal, it's not quite as triggering sometimes. And there's a little bit more safety and humility allowed in that conversation, but it allows us to just kind of intentionally choose how we're going to move through it.
So it's been really helpful.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: You know, I. I also. I got into this with a grandparent first. My eyes became open to this transitional stage of life and to how this kind of started playing out from that aspect. And I think, you know, a grandparent has that man. They.
Maybe their pride can be set aside easier. Maybe it's just maybe like they can be more forgiving, more tolerant. Maybe because you're supposed to be curious with them. You've always been curious with them. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe curiosity plays and them trying to feed that, that's an appropriate side.
You know, often too, there's bandwidth. I mean, I had bandwidth at the time that my parents didn't have. They were in this. The throws that I'm now coming into now of my life. When you sit between two generations squarely.
[00:20:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: And trying to work that out, you know, what were.
What would you say, I guess from that experience of your mom that might be the first one where you get to watch a mom who got to watch her mom there without jumping into your family situation off of that. Are there any really big things that you can see where you guys thought you would be able to change, but maybe was a little more difficult than you thought or something that was really easy to change that you thought was going to be really hard.
[00:21:04] Speaker C: I think I would, what I would speak to that is also just acknowledging in the generations and I think this is what I do really appreciate about my grandma.
She's able to talk more now since her mom has passed of like, the wounds from her childhood. Because that generation, like, they didn't stop, they didn't talk about anything, right? And I'm like, the stories that I hear now about my grandma's childhood, and I'm like, what?
[00:21:32] Speaker A: They barely survived.
[00:21:35] Speaker C: Like, how did that even happen? How was that possible? Who tolerated that? Like, you know, just all kinds of crazy stuff. And so it's kind of like it's water under the bridge. Like, it is what it is. There's nothing to go back. We can't go back and fix it. There's nothing to talk about. But again, when we can have those conversations just to speak freely and when we're separating them out from our identity, like, can we, can we accept great grandma for who she was and who she wasn't? Like, she did her best. And I think being able to have, the older that I get, I feel like the more grace and the more compassion I have on my mom and my grandma when I put the humanity on them of like, they were real people too once. Like, they aren't just the people in my experience and how they impacted me, right? When we can look on them to say, like, wow, what did you experience? What was life like for you as a teen, as a twenty, twenty year old, when you got married? What was your marriage like? You know, that's not so personal. Like, here's how you traumatized me or how you let me down or how you know all of those feelings, parts of the situation and we can just put ourselves in their shoes and give them a voice to share and to own. Like, oh, that's. That says more about grandma than it does about my mom. And I think for my mom, right, like, the things like her weaknesses, her insecurities, her challenges, they say more about her than they do about me, right? Like, it's when and when we can take that out, right? I think that's where really, then our identity piece comes in. Where all of other people's actions or upsets or frustrations are not a direct correlation to, oh, if they loved me more, they would have done differently. If I was enough, I wouldn't have experienced this situation. You know, like, it allows for people to have their weaknesses, their strengths, their mistakes, their failures, and their love and acceptance all at the same time. That's not so significant and pressured and so go ahead.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Well, I just was going to say with that too. There seems to be like a thousand things that need to be addressed. As that grace sets in at that level and that understanding sets in, a lot of those things melt away.
[00:23:52] Speaker C: They really do.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: They don't have to be addressed. Right. They just, just kind of wither away and they go away and they're not a deal. And like you said, water under the bridge. There's nothing you could do. It becomes so much easier to focus on now. What's in front of you again.
[00:24:07] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. And that's where the re choosing and the recreating that I talk a lot about in my coaching is like able to separate out. Right. And those are kind of the conversations that I would be having, I would say with my mom, right. As things she's dealing with her mom, you know, and some of that parent child like those responses come out or the frustration or the anxiety and she feels like that little kid again who was being whatevered. Right. And you're like, I can have that conversation with my mom. That's like, mom like, well, what do you want to do about it? Is that really true? And how do you want to move forward now? Right. Like, what are we building now and how do we want to respond? And kind of separating those two things out between what is just like that says more about grandma than it does about you. If you can show up secure and whole and loved, how do you want to be loving and have compassion for whatever grandma's going through right now?
[00:25:00] Speaker A: You know what's crazy is there is this huge. Yeah. You have this huge time of. During a parent project of discovery again this last weekend we went down to watch. To watch football game with my older kids. So my, my oldest daughter is a missionary and runs a church down at the University of Arizona and the Newman center down there. And then I had a son who's a freshman down there and we were all together for the game. But during the course of really fun weekend and my dad was down with us too, stories start coming out and I, and I remember right, the kids start telling you they're now at that age where they start telling you different things that kind of went through and you're talking and it's. And there's a comfort of having my dad there. I think as well of them to commensurate kind of around me, around that and have that conversation. One of these things, these truths that really stuck out that Seems to be a staple of processing things during a parent project is this understanding of the Personas that we put forward when we're working back and forth. My kids, of course, have things that they did a great job of hiding, and I'm glad I didn't see because it made me. I mean, nothing. Terrorists. So far, we've done great. We've done well. Yeah. But generally that's there. But then on the other side, I start thinking, we came back and my dad and I are having conversations about stuff, and he's talking through things, and not just when he was a kid, but when I was a kid and what those experiences were. And it reminded me of this. I show my children, all five of them see the best version of me, hopefully every day. Right. They.
They've never seen me intoxicated or they've never seemed, like, drunk. Right. Or anything like that. And I've worked hard for some of those things. The reality of. Has that happened to me at some point in time in my life? Yeah, it has. Did I make stupid decisions during that? I'm probably sure I did. And those conversations are probably good conversations to have at some point in time. But because they were formative for me, they informed how I look and how I'm advising them about how to handle situations. But I'm not able to go all the way through where those things are. Maybe there's not time. Maybe there is, and I just don't want to. But now you start fast forwarding to where you're starting to make some decisions and lean forward and lean in and give advice to a parent who you saw the best version of for your first 18 years of life. You went and lived your life for the last 40, and they lived their life for the last 40 or so. And now you're coming back together and trying to pick that up based off of that version of them, you know, that was the best version of them.
[00:27:29] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:27:31] Speaker A: So.
[00:27:31] Speaker C: Well, and I think what's challenging for us, I would imagine, is that if you didn't see the best version of your parent and all you. All you know, is your wounds that they did to you, I think the best gift for yourself, if they're willing, whether it was good or bad, is to go back and be curious and be like, tell me about what life was like for you during that season.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: I love how you said that. Right. To be curious and genuinely.
[00:28:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Scratch the conversation with curiosity. That's the best way to learn. I mean, we teach. We do, you know, your staff. Do we teach Our kids to do it. You want them throughout all of life, Read a book with curiosity. Scratch situation. Listen to a podcast with curiosity. Listen to your parents with curiosity. Yeah, I like that.
[00:28:21] Speaker C: Because me as. So I have a teen daughter right now, right. So it is real time where I'm like, Mike, so how that looks. My curiosity now is going back to my mom and being like. Because I know what I'm going through in my own life right now. Right. Like, I'm trying to take on big things and I'm trying to parent a teen. She's got her mess.
But if I don't realize, like, my mom was going through stuff when she was 40, it was not all about me, but my experience is only my perspective of what I was going through when I was a teenager. Right. And so it's that kind of curiosity that's like, boy, what were you going through in your life? What was. What were you doing professionally, emotionally, your social life? Like, what. What caused you angst in your. In your world when you were 40, when you were 50?
And I think being able to go back with that kind of curiosity, but also I think the importance of going back and reliving, like, I had some. I had a sexually abusive kind of situation that happened when I was a teenager that my parents knew about. Like, they got involved and like, it was a big mess.
25 years later, I actually went back to them and re. Had a conversation with them because I was like, I don't actually remember. I remember what I went through it and I remember sort of what I think your responses were. But tell me now, at this age, what do you remember of that? Right? And there were some really shocking misunderstandings or mis. Memory of, like, what I thought that they said or especially a really important sentence that I forgot got repaired, that my mom was like, no, we totally cleaned that up. Like, from her perspective, we cleaned that up 20 years ago. But I needed to hear it again. And the freedom and the grace to say, like, I believe you. Right? Like, Right. Like, that was what you were going.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: Through then because you went into the conversation with curiosity.
[00:30:17] Speaker C: I did. And I wanted to understand.
Yeah. And it wasn't all just about my hurts and my wounds and my. Even my interpretation of my experience. I was like, you as another human being, like, what. What was that like for you? Were you stressed? Were you in pain? Like, how did you recover? How did you process it? Because especially when we're as kids, like, our parents aren't out loud. I'm not taking my daughter through my emotional Roller coaster of life every day. Right about me. Like that's not appropriate.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: Right, right, right. So. But at some point it's so. Oh man. This isn't a parenting side. But Right, right. But that gets confused so much because one could hear what we're talking about and go, okay, maybe I need to be more transparent with my kids. And we work through all this and there's a lot like there's a line that's doing that right. My kid, this equality here. And I'm gonna. They're gonna go side by side because we have an equal experience in life for where those things go. I just, I find that to be kind of like garbage. Like over time, kids need, they need boundaries in a safe place. I have learned, I've learned that when my dad created for me and when I could create for my kids those elements where I could test and fail safely off of that boundaries that would lead to like another six month side of. Well, I'm not pushing those boundaries and I'm kind of leaning in and I'm working off of all of this. Like those were the best times of stuff. And when my dad and I work through things where we get into a challenge, I try to return back into that kind of mindset is. Is doing that. I don't need to be. I'm not an equal with my dad. I am a 47 year old man. I'm not an equal with my father. And that is a truth right now. We both went through experiences together and we had this. And you have different traumas that come from decisions that they all make a divorce or these types of things. And they dealt with it. He dealt with it all the best he could for what he had in front of him in the. And the faculties in front of him. But I think of that still too with my kids. Leaving room, man, leaving room for the failures in this and also for the truths of. For them to have that and to work through that experience. So not.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know if I'm trying to say not to over communicate it or where those boundaries would be.
[00:32:38] Speaker C: Well, I think what you're speaking to. I appreciate you bringing up that distinction because I think the things that like in that perspective, that's the leaning up part of it. Right. Where like that's not me as an adult, as a 40 year old talking to my mom, talking to my grandma. Conversations.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:53] Speaker C: Versus like I'm not there yet with my daughter. Right.
[00:32:57] Speaker A: Who's she there to hear it?
[00:32:59] Speaker C: Sorry. Yeah. Nor is she there to hear it. She is certainly. We're barely. It's kind of when we were talking before, right, where you're like, it's almost. It's too close, it's too personal right now. It's too sensitive, it's too touchy, it's too triggering. Right. Like some of those conversations. But I'm preparing my heart to be ready someday when my daughter's ready, because I think that that's a gift that my mom was able to give me when I was 20, even when I think it might have been more like 22, that we had a huge kind of just a reconciling conversation of like my childhood. Right. And ever since then, we just kind of keep reliving these conversations of just checking in with each other to make sure. Like, are there any other old wounds? Right. Where we can then speak from scars and not wounds now when things happen and then we're. It's not a record of wrongs and it's my whole life and you know, it's so over dramatized.
But I think also to speak to then if, to the people listening. If you've never done this before, tread lightly, tread graciously. And really the work to do is on yourself first because your older parent, your grandparent, especially if you've lost somebody already, like they have to be willing and able to have those conversations. And they may or may not, but there is still plenty of healing and acceptance and ownership that you can do on your own, whether they're willing. And then in that space you get to kind of decide what are they capable of, what are they not what am I capable of? And you can't just come in and start blowing things up as if you've never had these kinds of conversations before. Yeah, you got to bring them on the journey.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: And so, well, let's have a conversation. Let's, let's kind of move in close into that. Right. Let's talk about that implementation of some of this. So here, what I, what I really enjoy off of that is traction. I have really learned across life and across watching a lot of families go through this.
You can, you can control what you can control. You can't control what's out of your control. And one seems to be a very healthy way to start through this is tackling all of it in the, in that curiosity, that spirit of curiosity on working on you. Yeah, I don't focus at all, don't focus at all on the other person and where you're going to go because then they don't have anything to fire back at you. It's like, hey, I'm. I'm working on this thing for me, I'm trying to understand why I respond to things the way that I do and where this comes around. And, you know, I think this one thing might play a role in that is that. Can you shed some light on that? Like, what do you remember about how we went that maybe something like that. How. How does that talk to me about that?
[00:35:41] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. I think right in the beginning when we were talking about even naming your wall, like, what are you even upset about?
And there's plenty for you to first put some words onto that. Right. And I think when you're in the throes of taking care of these critical situations, Right. The people that are working with the parent project, like, there, it's very stressful. There's some real things that are stressful. They're scary all on their own. But there's this whole other side that it triggers all of these lifelong emotions and feelings and hurts, whether they've been repaired or not.
And I think so we. So I would be speaking to the. The emotional triggers that are being triggered right now. And I think when we can, the best place to get curious, to get really clear with yourself about what you're actually upset about, figure out, what are you making it mean about you? What are you making it mean about your parents? What are you making it mean about your identity and their identity. They were a terrible parent or they were the best parent or somehow they rejected me or they are not proud of me. Like, what do you want to hear?
Where do you need to hear I'm sorry or do you need to apologize for or. Right. Like if you can put some ideas and some real words around the concept so it's not vague and overwhelming and all. Or nothing.
[00:37:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:14] Speaker C: And then to be able to go back and be curious about them, you there, it will be so much safer and easier to go in with curiosity as opposed to accusations. You did this to me. Right. Or you didn't care about me. Right. Like instead, boy, tell me about my childhood. What was life like for you or even what was life like for you in your childhood? Right. And if we're as we're looking at them and assuming, okay, there's love and respect and it might be that they really don't respect you. Like, I, you know, like, I think there are some parents that are just really. You're not going to get their approval. They're not. They don't have the capacity. But when you allow that to also mean that, that it says more about them than it does about you.
We can't give love to people when we don't have our own self love. Right. So look at that. Looking at that parent who they might, they did their very best. It might not have been great, it might not have been enough. It might have been really hurtful, but they did the best with what they had. Is kind of where that compassion piece can come into. But still being curious.
So I don't. Did that answer your question?
[00:38:28] Speaker A: I think no. In fact, I mean I've jotted through kind of an order of all of this that seems to really flow. Where I really like where that landed is there's a recognition then as you achieve that self love and that self understanding as best as you can. And man don't over perfect it. You, this, this is moving at you and there's a lot to do but understand those wave tops of what are those big things. Get to that point where you've got that forgiveness. From that standpoint, you're now in that healthier environment where you can begin to assess, okay look, what am I dealing on here? I think you're going to be able to see the challenges in front of you more for what they are. You'll understand, ah, this is a preference that's probably rooted in something trauma. You may even by then understand what trauma led them to be where they're at. You know, what is their problem and you know what is your problem. But you're, you're now at a stable place to man. You're also at a stable place to example where to go and what to go. Not even Jesus went home and was respected where he went right when he first showed up off of that. But, but then he started setting example and people were like, oh, but the first gut shot against all of that is like it's your carbon kid. You don't know what you're talking about, whatever. And then that starts to set in. I think there's a real truth in humanity. So. Okay, so I want to try to read this back. I want to try to walk through all this and where we landed from this. One of the, where we really started off the top of this was, you know, being able to name that wall. So I'm actually going to come just a step back before that. Kind of like when you go through those first aid classes and they tell you when you go to run in to help somebody, the first thing you do is you stop and you look around and you do that so that you don't go run to that guy laying on the ground in a puddle of water who was just electrocuted. And you don't know that he was just electro. You go run into it.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: Right.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: Like, look around and see, oh, oh, my gosh, I got to deal with that problem first. So assessing that situation, if for nothing else, to put your head in a mindset that I'm going to assess. And when you assess that, you're assessing with curiosity, this is going to be a pattern. If you're watching this, this curiosity thing is going to be a pattern of success for you over time. And we've got other resources from that. But I can tell you I'm going to drive to make sure we've got lots of resources that question that way. Okay, now with fewer words, what is hard for you? What I hear you talking about is in what is hard for you? What are your triggers? What are your struggles? Maybe find those big places. So where do I struggle? What are the hardest decisions for me to make? Where are the hardest places that I cannot come to grips and understand why they do what they do. And so I'm going to have a hard time leading or leaning in off of that. Understand, and then get curious about that. Name that wall. Name those things. These are my walls. These are. These difficult. These are the ramifications of it. I'm going to go upstream to understand, well, this is the wall. And from there you start to enter with curiosity to discover what challenges led you into that. You then laid down essentially, what are my assumptions? Now you're starting to kind of come to cognitive behavioral therapies and things like that. Right. What, what assumption is my brain laying about, about how I solve these problems again and again and again and what formed those things. And. And then revisiting some of that privately, some of that definitely in prayer and with. With somebody who can walk you through that and a professional who can walk you through that. But. But then also there's probably a time where you're going to understand, well, this applies to my caregiving situation. How do I enter those conversations? Your recommendation that I hear from you is enter those with curiosity about what that experience was like for them.
[00:42:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:07] Speaker A: On their. On their side of the house. What did you know, Explain. I'm going through this thing. I have a challenge every time I make a decision. And this, I have these bias off of this. I think it stems from dealing with some of these things when I was a kid that looked like this to me.
[00:42:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: How did that experience look to you? Like, what do you recall of that? And. And without a blame or a point or you screwed me up here, you didn't like me here you did this thing, it's talking to you during this time. This seems to have an impact on me. What can you tell me about it with that curiosity so that you can get yourself finally to a place of self love and you can now proceed with clear. Like you're beyond the wall. You now understand. I have clarity on really what it is. These are what they have not yet tackled and maybe they won't before they pass. And maybe these are things they can. And you can start leaning in and leaning up a little bit easier. How'd I do?
[00:43:01] Speaker C: Yeah, that sounds fantastic. I'm inspired. Let's do it.
Yeah. I think what's so cool about it too, I think just some advice that made me think about it when you were reading that back is that it's also okay sometimes we don't have to over dramatize like the real time. Like what's happening right now doesn't always have to be a reflection of past and wounds and scars. Right. Like it can just be scary. Right now you're afraid they're going to die or you're going to make a mistake. Like you want to make the best decision. And being able to acknowledge that also there's. There can be two upsets happening at the same time. Yeah, there can be old wound upsets and old hurts and unresolved issues. But then there's also genuine upset of right now. Like even just the pressure, like we're in it, we're in a whole new era that I don't know enough about. I need. And there's so much information, right. You're kind of at this fire hose, you're feeling pressured. I gotta make decisions right now. We want to make the best decision. Are they going to be mad at me? We're trying to just prevent future upsets. Like there's a lot going on just in dealing with this health or crisis or move or just end of era stuff being dealt with.
And there's the past stuff. And so I think that's part of even being able to distinguish like am I upset about old days or am I really upset of just like what's happening right now? And I don't know what to do. And I think the grace and the freedom to even just be curious for yourself, to be open to getting the support. Getting open to having the hope you get support as best as you can to deal with like, boy, how do I make decisions today about, like, real time.
[00:44:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:48] Speaker C: Or is this old stuff that needs to get resolved? And I think the other thing that I was thinking about is, you know, beyond the walls, you have these walls that if you think about a house and there's a fence, like, it means that there's a boundary. Like, this is my house, this is my property. Outside of the. The other side of the fence is not my property. Right. And so it is the challenge also to have healthy boundaries. And where we used to have a wall, that's kind of in the re. Choosing the recreating. Like, boundaries are good, boundaries are healthy. Like, there is a need for protection. But is it the type of protection we really need or still want? Where did that wall come from? Is it still appropriate today? Or do I need a new wall? And almost not even a wall, but like a fence. Right. With a gate. Like, there's an opening. Like, can I open the gate and allow you to come in or do you need to go out? Right. Like, so I think it kind of adds a whole nother. And we could have a whole nother conversation about that that I just brought up. But just food for thought.
The things to think about, gates through.
[00:45:58] Speaker A: Walls, I tell you, it's. It's a next step, right? Is it a get? Yeah.
You did a brilliant job. Really, really a brilliant job. You're a wonderful phone friend and really that person to understand that and walking through that progression of those things. I think you do a great job specifically of really calling that out too.
Not everything's going to come from a trauma that comes off of all of that. There's a reality. There's a real thing there. However, when you get into this, it'll be easy to get sucked kind of into. Into those dark places and to work off of that. So, you know, making sure that if you do jump into all of that, have that lifeline, know who that, that, you know, we'd say in the military, that battle buddy. Right. Who's that person who's going to pull you out, who, who can kind of tap you out on the shoulder and be like, okay, that's. That's good. That's enough now. Like, let's circle back around or. Because you're talking about highly volatile and emotional stuff at a very difficult time when. Especially with our parents, you know, they are there at a time where they're coming to grips and maybe they are not coming to an enlightenment to start dealing with it.
[00:47:04] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:47:05] Speaker A: They might even be behind you and they recognize they don't have time to do it or they can't because their parents are, they're gone.
[00:47:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:14] Speaker A: There is no opportunity to do that.
[00:47:16] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think being able to be okay, like it's also okay, then the work left to do is to then be pouring down to the next generation. Right. Like you can't repair up, but you can start to change and recreate something going down to the ones coming up behind you. And so it's, it's still repairable, it's still recoverable.
It's not too late. Whether the other people want to participate or can participate or not, there's still hope to be had.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: Kylie, it was wonderful. Talk to us. Where can the audience find more on Kylie Cross and beyond the walls?
[00:47:50] Speaker C: Yeah, so I, I have coaching. I have one on one coaching. You can find me at BeyondTheWallspodcast.
I post a lot on Instagram @BeyondTheWalls podcast and then I do put out a podcast weekly. You can find me on Spotify and YouTube and Apple and I love to have guests come on and just share their stories of overcoming and the walls that they've overcome. So if you have a story and want to come on the, on the podcast, I'd love to have you. And I talk a lot about just different categories and topics of boundaries and healing and just how to really re choose and recreate a life that we really do love and have purpose and joy in.
[00:48:29] Speaker A: Well, I think you do a brilliant job of that and I just genuinely appreciate you coming down and sharing those time, talents and treasures with us today with our audience down there. God bless you and everything that you're doing with your calling.
[00:48:42] Speaker C: Thank you so much.
[00:48:49] Speaker A: Well, that's it for the team this week and thanks for joining us. If you've enjoyed the content, remember to subscribe and share this episode on the app that you're using right now. Your reviews and your comments, they really help us expand our reach as well as our perspectives. So if you have time, also drop us a note, let us know how we're doing. For tips and tools to clarify your parent project, simplify communication with your stakeholders and verify the professionals that you choose. You can find us on YouTube, follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Thanks again for trusting us. Until our next episode, Behold and be held.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to this Parent Projects podcast production.
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